"Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

[Andy]

Many questions have arisin over the years about the phrase, "Fair Use" where our board is concerned. Some time ago a couple of us embarked on a journey to find out more about this elusive phrase and how it applies to our site. The end result was the rules as you now see them. Not just the "rules of posting" but the additional guidelines as we have defined in the "Responsibility of Posters" forum.

I want to show y'all exactly what was uncovered that created this restriction.

http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/FUsummaries.htm

This site has a case that rose between Free Republic and the Los Angeles Times. Here is a thumbnail of what happened. Please note, I have bolded some key points for emphasis and how I think it applies to our site.

COPYING FOR WEBSITES & PUBLIC DISSEMINATION

Los Angeles Times v. Free Republic, 54 U.S.P.Q.2D 1453 (C.D. Cal. 2000)

A bulletin board website allowed members to post full articles from newspapers in order to generate awareness and discussion of various subjects. Access to the site was unrestricted. The defendant was a for-profit corporation, but was in the process of seeking nonprofit tax status and did not charge for access to materials on its website.

Purpose: The articles were copied directly from the news sources and were not “transformative.” The judge was also not persuaded that a link to the news source would not be sufficient. While the court generally favored the claim of a “nonprofit” use, the court still found that posting the articles was drawing readers away from the commercial websites where the articles originated.

Nature: The articles are predominately factual, tipping the factor in favor of fair use.

Amount: The website included the full text of the articles, and the court found that the copying was more extensive than necessary to accomplish the defendant’s objectives.

Effect: The newspapers were seeking to exploit the market for the articles and draw traffic to their websites; the defendant was “usurping” the copyright owner’s potential markets.

Conclusion: The bulletin board’s use of the newspaper articles was deemed to not be fair use.

Read Full Opinion

This board is almost identical to that which is described above except we are not a Corporation. However, we do allow free and open access to the contents of the site so in that we would fall under the same guidelines.

If you go and read the "full opinion" you see that Free Republic lost the case. Needless to say, we can't afford such a court process!

Thanks for understanding!

[Guest]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

The thing is, Andy, even tho a posted news item may only have "highlites" from the original source, for the most part, it is enough to get the point across. I rarely click on the source to see the rest of the articles since most wedgies seem to be smart enough to post only the most important facts. So does this not, in effect, do exactly the same thing as before? How likely is it that some news site will figure that one out and try to stop it altogether?

[Andy]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

No, because we are posting only the portions of the report that impact what our site is about - in this case, open discussion about world news from a biblical prophetic view.

The judge deemed that copying the entire article was overboard so as long as we don't do that I don't think we'll ever run into difficulties with the courts. I don't have an exact formula of, "Post all but one paragraph" or "just post 2 paragraphs and not 3". That is a bit abiguous in the court findings - only that we can NOT post the entire article.

For my own peace of mind I would like to see no more than 50% of the original out here. I don't have any "court ruling" that states this - it's just what I'd like to see happen so if anyone EVER takes us to court we can show that this was our policy.

[Guest]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Gotcha!

[N1095A]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

L.A. Times and Wash. Post are still allowed on FR but the software restricts it to the guidelins. Same with CNN.com, MSNBC.com and many others. It's very good about watching out for that (which is not something that can be built into this board automatically).

[Andy]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Yeah, you've mentioned some kind of software they use but I have no idea what or how so - I just ask everyone to be careful.

[N1095A]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Yes agreed. Having posted literally hundreds of articles over there since '99 I've become rather aware of the do's and don't. Good idea for folks to be careful.

Funny thing is you'd think they'd (news sites) like the free advertising. But often they want "hits" to raise the ad rates on their sites. I can understand the point. Those who actually restrict completely are few and far between. But yes, most of the majors, CNN.Com, MSNBC.Com, have required excerpts of no more than 300 words. Put in 301 and the software rejects it. They've never said anything about image linking that I've ever seen.

[Radio Free Narnia]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Bob, do you have any idea on guidelines for AP and Reuters? I use a lot of their articles pulled from Yahoo on Watchmen Watching and I want to be careful on fair use.

[N1095A]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Yahoo! News has never been an issue on FR that I've ever seen. Neither photos nor articles. I'll post a Yahoo! News article over there in the next couple days and watch the software. It's up-to-date pretty good.

[RealDutch]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

My 2 euro cents in this.

Isn't it a good idea to host millenniumweekend in Europe, i mean there will be no difference noted by anyone, only that you don't have to worry anymore about very difficult and restricting rules how they are in the US.

Second to that, we don't have suing or whatever courtmatters what will ruin a person or organisation as you have overthere.

In all respect in this, (just to notice you all that i respect different opinions and way's of live, or country's governments !) We (europeans) alway's surprise ourselves for example as a message apears like (example from last year) a lady who was eating at mac donalds and she sufferd from hearth and other health disseases caused by fatt food and unhealthy eating behaviour.

She sued Mac Donalds for that !!! It's unbelievable for us to see that happening, because in all senses everybody knows that eating hamburgers for all your life will definately not be good for your health. And this is just an example.....

But in the states you can sue any corporate or person for anything it seems when it is not mentioned in some kind of disclosure agreement.

It seems that so much money flows in court matters that it slows down grow and innovation in any sector in the States. In percentage there is a disbalance between the amount of lawyers and the rest of society. This is so dangerous and unhealty.

Anyway, i just wanted to express my thoughts about this.

Regards, Patrick

p.s. Never forget, Internet is a new media, it's another world without borders and so already not restricted by any national rules. Not everybody likes that, but it is just reality as it is. It's like aplaying a stop sign on the road for an overcoming boeing 747 !

[Radio Free Narnia]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Patrick, if I may:

Fair Use isn't just the law, it's the right thing, the Christian thing to do. If I had any copyrighted material out there, I'd certainly want to see it protected.

[RealDutch]

Re: "Fair Use" - Andy Answers Questions

Patrick, if I may:

Fair Use isn't just the law, it's the right thing, the Christian thing to do. If I had any copyrighted material out there, I'd certainly want to see it protected.

I think there is nothing in the Bible about copyrights. (but there is about stealing, to make it clear)

But i know what you try to say. I myself have only doubts you don't understand what i try to make clear.

Try to see it differently, when a paper publish something on the internet (a in essence anarchistic environment) they have to get used to it that it will not be handled as it is by publishing on an average newspaper or magazine.

The noweday's situation of the ' new media' is not fixed, words, articles, bits and bytes are flooting trough cyberspace. Opinions, words and articles are open when the are published on the web.

You maybe don't like it, but reality shows a different situation, people form every part of this world can read whatever is written on the web, they are not bounded by other nations classic rules (ment for other media and real life situations).

The internet is global, and not bounded by the classic interpretation of laws. Any nation wo tries to restrict it will find itself left behind.

--

About old media (music companies, producers and all those who see there luxury live treathened by p2p networks better cope with the new situation then hold tight to a world wich will not return back) I would be much better for them to adapt to a system like Apple is using for example, a small feed to pay for downloading music. That !!! is an good example for adapting to a new situation.

--

I just wanted to suggest that while you still do what is right (only now by a government who has a healthy balance between deed and punishment when you do somehing wrong) you can avoid all anxiety and doubtfull copyright systems by just changing host to a legal european hoster.

Thast all