The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

[Glorify Him]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

I must have missed this thread because there is no way that I would forget this one. Awesome, MTC, simply awesome. And for me right now, timely. I do not believe that one can ever lose their salvation for all the reasons you listed, but, the enemy has been very busy lately working on my self loathing and unworthiness. The bottom line answer to the accuser of the brethren is always that it is the blood of Jesus that makes me invaluable of of great worth to God. Nothing in me, just Him.

Thank you for a truly well written, easy to understand exposition of this subject.

[Guest]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

With the destruction of the Sin Nature, our slavery to Sin is gone

slavery, yes........ temptation to that old sin? not necessarially..........

I have run into many otherwise delightfull bretherin who believe that when a person is saved they will never again be tempted by their ""former"" beseting sin(S)

In the believer, we can still be tempted by our besetting sins...... sadly many people INCLUDING ME are still tempted ........

imho, the difference is that the Child of GOD does not want to do the same old sinful things,,,, needs to be in constant prayer against the flesh which still has a grip on lots of believers........ when/if a believer backslides, the HOLY SPIRIT brings that person back to rightness and fellowship through chastisement and conviction through the prompting of the SPIRIT........

If a person who says they are a Christian but willfully sins without the chastisement of the HOLY SPIRIT, imho that person never was a believer to begin with......

just like the story of the prodigal pig......... who got tired of being cleaned up and being in church and went back wallow in the mud of the pig pen ---for ever---

[MoreThanConquerors]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

Of course there is temptation to sin. I never said we would not be tempted.

But we are no longer slaves to those sins and don't have to listen to the temptations.

Temptation is not sin. It's an enticing to sin. Even Jesus was tempted.

GH - you and I are in the same boat. Dealing with the exact same thing.

[Issachar]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

I have run into many otherwise delightfull bretherin who believe that when a person is saved they will never again be tempted by their ""former"" beseting sin(S)

You should encourage them to be honest.

As has already been pointed out, even Jesus was tempted ..

Hebrews 2:
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Issachar

[MoreThanConquerors]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

Issachar...I cling to those verses often.

People suffer a lot of guilt during temptations...as if being tempted is the same thing as the sin itself, as if they had already committed the sin they were being tempted with.

And sometimes the feelings that those temptations bring is just plain awful. Like there is something wrong with me, that would cause me to be tempted like this.

Yeah, I cling to those verses.

And we forget we do have an enemy who does do alot of the tempting.

[Andy]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

And we forget we do have an enemy who does do alot of the tempting.

And also knows exactly where to hit each of us with those temptations. He knows our weaknesses and knows when we are the weakest. And if defeated today he knows when to come back when there's a more opportune moment. When David killed Goliath he also knew to sever the head. This speaks of doing RADICAL things to ensure the tempter doesn't come back to hit us again. I won't sabotage this thread to give examples but suffice it to say Jesus also gave several hyperbole's to illustrate the same thing. "Cut off the hand" or "pluck out the eye" - do whatever it takes to render the enemy powerless.

[Andy]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

Resurrecting one last time - after a few days I'm going to move this to the Resources Forum as I see this as a resource necessary to give PEACE to Christians that otherwise may really struggle with "being good enough" for God. Such a sad state in which to live.

[Issachar]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

Can't be saved by works; can't stay saved by works. Anything that says otherwise is a false gospel and by a false gospel, one cannot be saved.

Salvation is only by God's grace through repentance and faith. Once we're in Christ, there will be works in our lives because in Him and He in us, by the indwelling Holy Spirit, our minds will be renewed thereby changing what we do/want to do. (Romans 12:2)

Titus 1:
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Issachar

[Andy]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

I honestly don't know whether anyone visits the threads in this forum but this is such a fantastic thread on Eternal Security and GRACE that I felt it important to move to this forum.

May God give PEACE to those in turmoil.

[Jay]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

Andy,

Thank you for keeping this thread in view. I finally had the opportunity to read this through.

MTC you cleared up something for me that I have been wrestling with for years.

We have a flesh and sin resides there. Please note that this is a not a Sin Nature. The Sin Nature is the Old Man that was crucified. We no longer have a Sin Nature. We have a New Nature and a New Heart. With the destruction of the Sin Nature, our slavery to Sin is gone and it can no longer make us obey its whims. But, we still have flesh and sin is still there. What the flesh tries to do is get you, the New Man, to continue to believe you are still enslaved to Sin. This is where many believers fall into. They listen to the lies of the flesh and the Enemy and so they sin. Paul himself, understood the difference between his True Nature and Sin. "When I sin, it is not I who really sins, but sin itself" (paraphrased from Romans 7). It might be hard to see the difference between sin and the Sin Nature. Basically its this....the flesh (with the Enemy) tempts to sin, where as the Sin Nature, commanded you to sin. Do you see the freedom in this? You don't HAVE to sin any longer. Whereas before, you did.

Everything in your posts 1-2 made our inclusiveness in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ so clear.

This is part of the RICHES of HIS GRACE. I once posted on this forum the following:

our eternal security can be explained by the words in Ephesians “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who HAS blessed us with ALL spiritual blessing in heavenly places IN CHRIST” . Our Father has blessed us in Christ. We are blessed, but not in us, in Christ...

One shocking element of the gospel, rarely taught today, is the revelation from Jesus Christ given to the Apostle Paul concerning the vast extent of grace. We are not familiar enough with the reality of the grace that is ours. Real grace leaves no desire in our Father to look for anything from us. Understanding this truth is measured by the extent it expects less and less and nothing from self, and all from Christ.

Grace was revealed to Paul by an apokalupsus, gr. (revelation), which is overflowing in his epistles. The problem is we are so focused on how good we must behave, and our weight of difficulty put upon us by applicatory preaching, that we miss this revelation. Grace tells us that Christ is perfect, Christ is in glory, Christ is the fairest and only moral beauty that fills His Father’s pleasure. Grace is so occupied with Christ, that there is no need to find anything good in us, and at the same time grace whispers that we are in Him, so we need not look elsewhere. Grace sees the Father occupied with the Son, having made His Son to preeminent in all things, and all fulness to us. Grace finds a common interest with our Father: beholding His glorious Son.

Grace is unveiled in discovering the vast sum of what the Father has made Christ to be to us. That Christ is made to be all to us is declared repeatedly in the church epistles, but this is seldom fully believed in the thoughts of even the most earnest Christian. Grace shows us our Father’s purpose and pleasure before the foundation of the world, to give His Son to a body like ours with flesh and blood. His flesh is our Life, the true bread of heaven, His blood is the offered life of the Lamb to redeem specific ones before the just eye of an offended, but now reconciled God.

Grace is revolutionary. It removes self so thoroughly that it makes no sense to be disappointed with self. Grace places us with Christ in the Father’s acceptance, it overthrows all of our thoughts, purposes, unworthiness, and places us above where Christ is. It points us to the Father’s pleasure toward us by pointing to Christ, even while we weakly look inwardly and mourn our imperfections. Bemoaning our lack of love, we are unaware of the truth: our Father looks upon His Son for us with complete satisfaction. He invites us to see things His way.

Grace sweetly compels us to behold Christ, glorified in our nature, as our only Object, and grace tells us we are seated in the heavenlies with Him. There, all our life is Christ. There, the acting God has made Christ to be wisdom to us, righteousness to us, sanctification to us and redemption to us...

original thread http://wedg.millenniumweekend.org/fo...ead.php?t=3689

Since Christ is our Life. We are secure.

[MoreThanConquerors]

Re: The Cross, Grace and Eternal Security

Jay - your post on grace is something has blessed me numerous times the past few years. I have sent it on to many people who has been blessed by it as well. Glad you included it here.