Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

[Andy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Dunno, bro, anyone that thinks Christian's are Edom (I didn't even know this) - doesn't sound like anyone I would consider to be well versed in the scriptures. Don't take this wrong but - Satan knows the scriptures better than any human being on the face of the earth. But because he doesn't have the Spirit to enlighten him he's got it all wrong. Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Mormons, JW's...any other group you can think of...if they don't have the Spirit they don't know the truth.

As for me caring whether the US is Magog or not - since I do not believe I will be here to see it, no - I don't care.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Andy; I think you have missed the main point I am making about Israelis feeling jaws are closing in around them... American jaws. We will see what develops. I know you plan to miss all this..I suspect we will be around for awhile. If Christians try and take the Land away from the Jews I think they will incur the judgment of God, same as anybody else.

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Sandi: Maybe this would be a good place to disclose your theory.

[Biblenuggetlady]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Ok Sandi...dish it!!!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

ya Sandi...get it out there!!ping:

[Tasarwen]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

PB, you can read this easily while your long hair is drying..or is it dyeing...

FYI, PlumBob has cut all his hair off. He decided that he just did not like it. But he had fun growing to a certain length just to check it out.

HSB....while I think you are one of the best writers around here and I enjoy reading your posts, I still think that your conclusions are incorrect. This is not because I am an American but because I have been a Christian for 40 years and have read about this stuff for a long time. I also worked for James Robison and knew several other people who studied the Word very well. I never heard anything pointing toward your theory. Perhaps you are right....only time will tell.

[Sandylion]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

I am not really feeling quite ready to try to explain something I just came up with last night. I need to hash it out in my mind, and perhaps with Wendyj a little more before I commit.

I tried explaining it at lunch today, and it was really difficult without diagrams, and I am not really computer savvy enough to do diagrams. Hmmm. What to do?
I will try to write it out in a word doc, and then if it looks like it makes sense, I'll try posting it.

Wendy and I were pretty excited about it, but I am afraid if I present it here, it will get smooshed ASAIPI (that's, as soon as I post it!) Not that I don't trust ya'll but mostly everybody here on this Ezekiel thread is waaay smarter than me and I am much too afraid of looking like a fool.

[Biblenuggetlady]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

I'll anxiously await to see what you have when you feel led to post. I for one won't smoosh it or make you feel like a fool...I think I have the crown of fool earned with some of my own ideas. You are smarter than I, I usually get excited and post something without thinking it threw first...I guess I just get too excited and I am afraid too I'll forget. My mind goes faster than my mouth and fingers at times too, so by the time I write something out, some bits of info fall through the seive...

HSB, Torah...what is your take on this, Jack's idea of another location for the temple-it seems to fit in this thread. Here's an excerpt from his study, your geography of the area is so great:

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/revela...on-11-15-12-17

According to Prophecies in Daniel 9:27, Matt 24:15 and 2 Thes 2:4, a Temple will exist in Israel at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. This is confirmed in Revelation 11:1 by having John measure a Temple and count the worshippers there shortly before the Tribulation begins.



He's told to omit the outer court because it's been given over to the Gentiles. Its location is the "Holy City" which will be trampled on by the Gentiles for 42 months, the length of the Great Tribulation. Chapter 11 also introduces the 2 witnesses who preach in the "Great City" and are ultimately killed there, their bodies left lying in the street. The Great City is identified as the place where the Lord was crucified: Jerusalem. It's been trampled on by the Gentiles for 2000 years. Are the Holy City and the Great City the same or different? Let's see.



According to Zechariah 14:6-9, on the day of the Lord's return an earthquake will split the Mt. of Olives in two along an East-West line that creates a great valley through the center of Jerusalem. Immediately a river will fill the valley creating a waterway from the Mediterranean to the Dead Sea. If the Lord returns to the same area of the Mt. of Olives from which He left, as suggested by Acts 1:11, the earthquake creating this East-West valley will destroy the current Temple mount and anything that may be standing upon it.



Ezekiel 47:1-12 describes a great river flowing from under the south side of the Temple and then eastward to the Dead Sea during a period of time that most scholars believe has not occurred yet. Revelation 22:1-2 confirms this. If as it appears, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Revelation all describe the same river, then an interesting scenario begins to emerge.



This scenario requires a Temple to be present on the day the Lord returns, but since the current Temple mount will have been destroyed by the earthquake mentioned above, this Temple must be somewhere else. The river originates under the Temple and flows from its south side in a southerly direction before heading East and West, so the Temple must be north of the newly created valley.


Where Are The 12 Tribes?
Plotting the land grants for the 12 tribes given in the 48th chapter of Ezekiel on a map of Israel places the precincts of the Holy City somewhat north of the current City of Jerusalem. This new location is the ancient City of Shiloh, where the Tabernacle stood for nearly 400 years after the Israelites first conquered the Land. This is the Holy City and its name is Jehovah Shammah according to the last verse in Ezekiel. The Hebrew translates "the LORD is here."



If my interpretation is accurate, this location would meet all the requirements for the Temple mentioned in the above references. The current Temple Mount in Jerusalem would not.



According to Ezekiel 44:6-9, this Temple will have been defiled in a way never seen in history, therefore at a time yet future to us. A foreigner un-circumsized in heart (neither Christian) and flesh (nor Jewish) will have been given charge of the sanctuary while offering sacrifices. If we understand the chronology of Ezekiel, this will have taken place after both the 1948 re-gathering prophesied in 36-37 and the national wake-up call prophesied in 38-39 but before the Millennial Kingdom begins. The only event we know of that fits the time frame is the Great Tribulation. This is confirmed by Paul's prophecy of 2 Thes. 2:4 where the anti-Christ sets himself up in the Temple proclaiming himself to be god.



Here then is a rough outline of events. Following Israel's return to God after the battle of Ezekiel 38-39, the Jewish people will re-establish their covenant (Old not New) with Him. This will require a return to Levitical practices and so a Temple will be built. This is the Temple spoken of in Daniel and Revelation. Following instructions given by Ezekiel and needing to avoid the enormous problems a Jerusalem Temple would create in the Moslem world, this Temple will be located north of Jerusalem in Shiloh. It will be defiled in the middle of the last 7 years as outlined in Daniel 9:24-27, Ezekiel 44:6-9, Matt 24:15 and 2 Thes 2:4 kicking off the Great Tribulation, but it won't be destroyed.



This Temple will be the source of the living water that begins flowing on the day the Lord returns (Zech 14:8). After a cleansing and re-dedication similar to the one memorialized in the Feast of Hanukkah, it will be used during the Millennium. It's purpose will be to recall the Lord's work at the cross and provide the perspective for children born during the Kingdom Age to choose salvation. Acts 15:14-16 confirms that after the Lord has chosen a people from among the gentiles for Himself (the church) He will return and re-build David's fallen Tabernacle (the Temple). This is the Third Temple, so vividly described in Ezekiel 40-48. Now let's get back to Revelation.

[Sandylion]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Actually, what I can say however, is that it is regarding the passages we are studying in Revelation and Daniel about the 4th Beast with 7 heads and 10 horns. Knowing what we do know from scripture itself about the 4 beasts of Daniel and the progression of world kingdoms from Babylon down to Rome, I began to ask the question, What do we know from history that occurred AFTER the disintegration of the Roman Empire? Every empire listed in Daniel was in power over the Jews and Israel, as the entire prophecy is based around Daniel's people and his Holy City. So it seems clear that when Israel became a nation again, the world power that ruled over her at that time should be listed as one of the 7 heads in accordance with the prophecy of world dominions. Which country was the dominating world power when Israel once again became a nation in 1948 and how did that country become a world power? Could it be possible that the United States is the Rather Small Horn that subdues three of the ten horns (England, France and Spain) of Daniel 7?

I know you are all going to either laugh hysterically, or who knows what, but just be nice. I don't like being smooshed.

[Andy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Interesting thought, Sandy, but the US is losing power in the world - not gaining. England, France and Spain have united under the Euro and I believe the financial aspect of this world is what rules. A united and strong Euro will easily one day beat a Fiat economy that is RAPIDLY self-destructing.

Doesn't the little horn that rises up have to eventually take control over all of the kingdoms and only Christ Himself is what defeats the beast government and it's beast leader?

[Sandylion]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Interesting thought, Sandy, but the US is losing power in the world - not gaining. England, France and Spain have united under the Euro and I believe the financial aspect of this world is what rules. A united and strong Euro will easily one day beat a Fiat economy that is RAPIDLY self-destructing.

Doesn't the little horn that rises up have to eventually take control over all of the kingdoms and only Christ Himself is what defeats the beast government and it's beast leader?

The ten kings give their power and authority to the little horn for one hour. Rev 17:13 This must mean that there are 10 other ruling entities in the world at that time, but they give up the right to rule and allow the beast to dictate. It doesn't necessarily mean the world is one big country under one name.

The US may be losing power at the moment. But I have confidence that God can and does shuffle the deck whenever He pleases. What will happen under the next president, we don't know yet. I just feel that there can only be two reasons why the US is not mentioned in scripture. It is either finished, destroyed, as you say. Or it is mentioned by another name that we don't recognize. Some say it is Babylon, which I don't believe. But while doing my own study, without the aid of commentaries etc, it occurred to me that there are a few interesting commonalities between what is said about the Beast and the US as a world power. Not an insignificant world power either and especially at the most critical time in world history since 70AD, when Israel was reformed, reborn as a nation.

One thing we do know is that the US was born out of the remains of the Roman empire which will one day, or is now, revived. All the nations that have made up the US have come out of that world power.

The beast is said to have 7 heads and 10 horns. The 7 heads are 7 mountains or worldwide kingdoms, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, and the revived Rome. (Four of those head are also the four beasts of Daniel 7.) One of them is wounded and comes back to life. That is significant because it speaks of the revival of the Roman empire which was dead. ( It probably also speaks of a literal man being killed and coming back to life as well. There are often multiple meanings to many of these prophecies.)

The 10 kings are ten horns that grow on the beast with 7 heads. I believe those 10 kings could also be 10 smaller kingdoms that grew out of the ash heap of the Roman Empire, and among them grew a Little Horn, larger in appearance than its associates. It subdues three horns. The US grew up out from among, and along with, the 10 horns of the kingdoms which grew from the head of the Roman Empire. It has become far larger in power than the rest. It also subdued England, France and Spain in its time of growth.

Also, just for interest sake, I found it intriguing that the rider of the white horse in the 1st seal is given a victor's crown, but he did not earn it. It seems to strongly suggest a victor by election. He also goes out conquering and to conquer but he holds no arrows in his bow. Obviously that rules out military conquering. So what else could be used to conquer others? Perhaps others willingly give up their power for a time because of some common enemy other than human? Environmental concerns, perhaps?

I don't expect any confirmation on this theory, because it is just a theory. But it was from my own observation of the text of scripture and it made some sense to my head. I am sure that all this could change with the next hours of study and I am quite willing to give up pet theories. But this also fits with Daniel 11:36-45 so it became quite compelling to say the least and I was suddenly faced with an entirely new concept and picture of the events written in the Scriptures.

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Well said Sandi. In the next few weeks it will be interesting as we can explore this in light of more scripture and as world events shape up too-- we will be able to see how God reveals His word to us.

We are studying Rev in the light of other scripture so if anyone has tidbits we may be able to build on this newly hatched theory according to scripture doing tuning and fine tuning.

No smooching--discussion welcomed! Smoochers "into the porridge cannon!"

[Sandylion]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Wendy, that was SMOOSH, not smooch.

[Andy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Very interesting, Sandi - I'll have to ponder that one for awhile.

[Sandylion]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

Very interesting, Sandi - I'll have to ponder that one for awhile.

Aww Andy, you're very kind.