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Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

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  • #46
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

    Here are two msgs from Bridges for Peace Newsletter that comment a bit n what is happening in Israel as to their thoughts on the Judea/Samria area:

    COMMITTEE FINDS: WITHDRAWAL FROM YESHA DANGEROUS


    A committee appointed by Foreign Minister Tzippy Livny has found that a unilateral disengagement from most of Judea and Samaria [West Bank] would be dangerous and of little or no value.

    Livny, during her tenure as Justice Minister several months ago, appointed the committee to look into various aspects of a unilateral withdrawal from most of Judea and Samaria, as planned by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

    The committee found a series of problems with the plan, as reported today [August 15] by Aluf Benn in Haaretz. Among them are legal, security, financial and diplomatic issues, which render the plan essentially non-executable. They include the following:

    . In leaving certain areas, such as eastern Jerusalem, Maaleh Adumim, and Ariel, under Israeli control, the international community is not likely to support the plan, and pressure will continue to be exerted upon Israel.

    . Similarly, the Arabs of the Palestinian Authority [P.A.] will not be satisfied and will continue terrorist activities against Israel.

    . Jordan fears that handing over the area will lead to unrest amongst its own Palestinian population and instability in the entire country.

    . Hamas will use the areas to fire rockets into Israel, as it is doing in Gaza.

    The committee found that the costs of relocating 15,000 families would be tremendously high, but affordable. It was not assigned to look into aspects, such as the social rift, that would be caused in the country as a result of such a move.

    The committee listed a series of some 20 differences between the Gaza disengagement and Olmert's planned withdrawal from Yesha [Judea, Samaria, and Gaza], each of which works to the detriment of the latter. Among them are:

    . the desire not to give up the entire contested area;
    . the higher altitude of Yesha as compared with Israel's large
    population centers, giving terrorists a military advantage;
    . important water sources in Yesha;
    . ecological damage in Yesha that could negatively affect Israel,
    unlike in Gaza where the effects on Israel are negligible.

    The conclusions have been submitted to Prime Minister Olmert.

    Leading politicians not necessarily associated with the right-wing have come to similar conclusions. Less than two months ago, President Moshe Katzav said that a unilateral pullback from Yesha should not be construed as constituting a diplomatic solution and even had strong criticism of the unilateral nature of the pullback from Gaza.

    A minister in Olmert's own government and party, Housing Minister Meir Sheetrit of the Kadima party, recently expressed his opposition to a unilateral withdrawal from Judea and Samaria [West Bank]. One of the first to join former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in forming Kadima last year, Sheetrit said, "For one thing, in Gaza, we withdrew all the way to an internationally recognized border, whereas that will not be the case in Judea and Samaria. So what would be the point?"

    In addition, MK Yossi Beilin, head of the ultra-left Meretz party, said he has warned Olmert not to count on his party's five Knesset votes for his withdrawal plan. Beilin opposes it because the Jews of Yesha would not be transferred out, but would rather remain in large settlement blocs in Yesha.

    Just yesterday [August 14], opposition politicians Binyamin Netanyahu, Avidgor Lieberman, and others said that a clear conclusion from the fighting in Lebanon is that any plan to unilaterally withdraw from territory has no place in Israeli diplomacy.

    "We left Lebanon to the last centimeter," Netanyahu told the Knesset yesterday, "and they are firing. We left Gaza to the last centimeter, and they are firing. What we have learned is that if they lay down their arms, there will be peace-but if we lay down our arms, they will slaughter us."

    (By Hillel Fendel, Arutz 7, www.israelnationalnews.com, August 15, 2006)

    PRAYER FOCUS
    Pray that God will give wisdom to Prime Minister Olmert, and the members of the government. Pray that they will not move ahead with actions that will limit their ability to provide security for the nation in the years to come. Pray that they will realize that they can trust the Almighty to care for Israel.

    SCRIPTURE
    "And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, 'The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the LORD of hosts, their God'" (Zechariah 12:5).


    ================================================== =====

    4) KNESSET MEMBERS TO PRIME MINISTER-CONVERGE THIS!

    Several Knesset Members [MKs] in the government coalition, and even some in Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's own Kadima party, are now saying that the Convergence Plan may now be Olmert's undoing. The Convergence Plan was the centerpiece of the Kadima platform and calls for Israel's unilateral withdrawal from much of Judea and Samaria [West Bank], destroying a yet unknown number of communities and removing an estimated 65,000 Israelis from their homes.

    One year after the disengagement from Gaza and northern Samaria and six years after the withdrawal from Lebanon, some MKs are beginning to realize that unilateral moves only lead to more terror and violence against Israel.

    Labor MK Colette Avital asked, "How, after everything we have seen in the past month, could anyone suggest that unilateral steps lead to peaceful solutions?" Avital went on to say, "In Gaza and Lebanon, we've seen what happens with unilateral steps...They create a vacuum that simply leads to more violence."

    Many people in Israel are questioning Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz's handling of the war, and an investigative committee has been set up to look into this. Israel Defense Forces [IDF] Chief of Staff Lt. General Dan Halutz is also being looked at for several stock sales that he made immediately after the two IDF soldiers were kidnapped by the Hizbullah, but before the market took a severe hit with the beginning of the war.

    MK Nissan Slomiansky from the National Union-National Religious Party said, "Given the general public atmosphere desiring a change of government, it seems that the cabinet no longer has a coalition majority." A fellow MK from his party, Uri Ariel, has filed a motion to disperse the Knesset and call for early elections.

    (By Will King, BFP News and The Jerusalem Post, August 16, 2006)

    PRAYER FOCUS
    Pray that God will reign over Israel.

    SCRIPTURE
    "Daniel answered and said: 'Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, for wisdom and might are His. And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding'" (Daniel 2:20-21).

    ================================================== =====

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

      Over the last week or so I have been puzzling what the implications of the recent Lebanon actions are for the west bank situation. On one hand there seems to be an emerging notion that international peacekeepers/makers are necessary to separate Israelis from their enemies. See http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754713.html
      for an uptodate analysis of the value of such international effort.

      On the other hand I read in my morning paper that Olmert's plan for unilateral withdrawal from the west bank is effectively dead! support for this plan is now well below 10%. Olmert along with his defense misister and chief of staff are all living on borrowed time. Seems that Sharon's grand plan for solving the middle east situation now lies "comotose" like its author. It will be very interesting to see how events move forward. I for one expected unilateral, messy withdrawal from the west bank within the nexct 12 to 18 months. At this point in time it is hard to see how that could still occur.

      Any insights out there as to how this whole thing will move forward??

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

        Just someting that I wonder about and it is speculation but none the less plausable.

        What if:

        Israel decides to do some pre-emptive strike against Iran and in the process hits Damascus and wipes it out; we have seen that world opinion swings so easily toward terrorists and those who sympathize with them. Well what if world opinion dramatically comes against Israel and they are made to give up the Golan to Syria and the Judea/Samaria to the Pallies and Jerusalem too in return for a heavy foreign "peacekeeping presence" --loaded with Russians and in order not to receive heavy sanctions. Then perhaps the stage is loaded with the actors needed for Ezekiel.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

          If the world has no standards to rely upon, won't they look only to their own selfish interests which will change every time the wind blows?

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

            Hello again...

            I see that some of the fall-out from the recent war in Lebanon is that the Government of Israel is taking a hard look at giving the West Bank away unilaterally... there is an excellent article in Arutz outlining this thinking...
            Justice Ministry Considers Helping ´Outposts´Arutz 7 Editor [news@israelnationalnews.com] for Monday 28th August

            Israel may be going back to pre-Road Map for Peace... however, don't count Olmert out just yet... The World wants the West Bank removed from Israel... and 'they' are going to make sure that it happens. What now remains to be seen is what America is going to do! And I think that one of the outcomes of the Congress initiated investigation into the use of 'Cluster Bombs', will be pressure excreted on Israel to go back to the Road Map be denied access to the munitions necessary for proper defense.

            There is much more to come...

            Blessings:

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

              Every time it looks like Israel is going to give up GODs land grant to Israel
              something happens to prevent it

              If the arabs had been patient, civilized, they could have gotten the west bank Judea/ Sumaria years ago........ but the prophecy about their being wild men against everyone has been fullfilled

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                hello all. Just got back to Vancouver from camping on Orcas island in the San Juan chain off Washington state mainland. What beautiful country!!

                I have been thinking about the situation in Iran and Lebanon. The Sunni arabs would like to contain the power of Iran Shiites almost as much as the western powers. With a "robust" mandate in Lebanon suppose the EU peacekeepers did exactly that, dismantle the infrastructure used by Hizb Allah. That along with major interest on the part of arabs generally for some form of long term settlement might just tip the balance again in favor of an evacuation from the west bank. What would really help would be a coup in Iran that would reverse the present trend towards destruction. The pressure for "balance" would pressure Israel immensely. I think the Israelis are really tired of the whole endless fighting that has been going on. Maybe we can yet get "peace in our time" that is as lasting as the one Chamberlain got from Hitler!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                  Looks like the old roadmap corpse is getting out of the grave: with the new deal between Hamas and Fatah look for pressure on Olmert to get the process of withdrawal from the west bank back on the burner...

                  DEBKAfile: Olmert’s belated discovery of a serious breach with Washington prompted him to disinter the Middle East roadmap

                  September 10, 2006, 4:08 PM (GMT+02:00)

                  The Israeli prime minister informed the cabinet Sunday Sept 10 that the time had come to reach for a “diplomatic horizon.” Offering to meet Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas “without pre-conditions,” he brought back to life the moribund Middle East road map.

                  So what happened to his realignment plan which filled all the empty space on his campaign platform only six months ago?

                  The answer lies in Washington, where he is in very hot water with the Bush administration. First, the White House was angered by the way Olmert, defense minister Amir Peretz and foreign minister Tzipi Livni mismanaged the Lebanon war and, in doing so, got in the way of America’s plans for Iran.

                  This was followed by a further complaint: During his May visit to Washington, the Israeli prime minister presented the US president and the two Houses of Congress his realignment (aka convergence) plan for a partial withdrawal from the West Bank. He asked for American support and received it with an ovation.

                  Two and a half months later, that same prime minister ditched his realignment plan – only forgetting to drop a word to Washington. That was too much for the administration to swallow. Olmert was given to understand that it was totally unacceptable for him to discard a Middle East program taken seriously and adopted by the US government like an old shoe.

                  Confronted by secretary of state Condoleezza Rice and national security adviser Stephen Hadley, the two Israeli officials announced Olmert was ready to make a fresh start with a new plan. What plan?

                  Since there was no plan, the prime minister’s office decided to give the Middle East roadmap the kiss of life for the umpteenth time and invite Abu Mazen to return to the game as a player.

                  Most Israelis received the news with a yawn (|We’ve been there before). But the Labor ministers, the prime minister and foreign minister grabbed eagerly for the suddenly floating roadmap as a lifesaver for their sinking administration. These events took place during the weekend break in Washington. So no US response can be expected before Monday.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                    Is Solana working with this resureccted roadmap in his meetings or is this a seperate issue?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                      Things seem to have gone pretty quiet on the "Roadmap" plan. On Friday night I heard Mike Evans speak. He just released a new book on the Iran threat (sees it as worse than Hitler in the thirties!!) The book starts with a scenario involving nukes fired at America from container ships, and at Israel from the Sinai desert. Horrifying stuff (I sure hope and pray he is wrong!!)
                      I did ask Mike what he thought of the likelihood of a revived 2 state solution..he said NO CHANCE with the political difficulties the Israeli government is in. He does expect things to get HOT with Iran.

                      I'm not sure what to make of all this. We have the EU about to start a new 7 year budget cycle January 2007 which includes a "confirming" of the ENP (European Neighborhood Policy) arrangements with various countries including Israel. In addition we are rapidly approaching the end of 40 years after the capture of Jerusalem and the West Bank in the 6 day war. Note that on a regular calendar that time frame comes up next June 7, 2007, but on the so-called biblical calendar of 360 days it would come up November 8, 2006...in about 5 weeks. If either of these dates is significant we may see things begin to happen very quickly. I for one think the world is getting fed up with the middle east PROBLEM and simply wants it fixed, one way or the other, and soon! Time will tell.

                      I detect a real separation starting within churches. Some are moving more closely to Israel (see the post on the Day of Prayer for Jerusalem) and many are moving away. Christians for Israel has a 8 part video series called Why Israel. It is an excellent resource showing how the covenants of God with the Jews continue, including the NEW covenant referred to in Jeremiah. Zechariah says that one day the world's nations will come to jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. I had hoped to be there this fall but my wife and I must attend a family wedding. We need to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I suspect that much of Christendom is prepared to cut that little country loose.
                      Last edited by HSB; 10-02-2006, 10:50 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                        The problems with roadmaps is that once you unfold them all the way they hardly ever wanna go back. As the political roadmap unfolded, the wheels fell off of the wagon.

                        It's interesting that you mentioned Zechariah and the Feast of Tabernacles. The church used to celebrate it and it will be celebrated when Jesus returns but the unfaithful pastors of today reject and mock God's commandment. The feast this year starts this Friday evening. It is four days after Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement, which is today. We should be thanking Jesus all day long that he saved us completely for eterninty and that he paid the full price.

                        THANK YOU LORD JESUS!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                          From Grant Jeffrey’s book, “Armageddon Appointment With Destiny,” 1990, he states, Although, Scripture does not indicate the exact year in which this invasion and defeat will occur, the prophet Haggai gives us a strong indication of the actual day of the year on the Jewish calendar when this prophecy will be fulfilled, as we discussed in the prvious chapter. Haggai reveals that on the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month of the Jewish calendar (Chisleu), the day before Hanukkan (Dec 15, 2006 this year), God will deliver Israel as He did twice before on this anniversary: (1) the defeat of the Syrian army and recapture of the Temple in 165 B.C. and (2) the capture of Jerusalem from the Turks in A.D. 1917.”

                          “The prophet Haggai declares,

                          Hag 2:20 - And again the word of the LORD came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth [day] of the month, saying,

                          Hag 2:21 - Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;

                          Hag 2:22 - And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

                          Hag 2:23 - In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.

                          This description and the exact language is uncannily like that of Ezekiel 38 and 39 which describes Russia’s defeat. The interesting point is that it names the exact day of the year on which this will occur. Since so many other prophecies have been so precisely fulfilled to the day, there is a strong likelihood that this event will also occur on its appointed day."

                          Ezek. 39:8 – Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                            Time for a little update now that the election is behind us: see link for full article

                            http://www.cjp.org/content_display.h...ticleID=199594

                            Seeking Iraq Exit Strategy, U.S. Pushes Israel Toward Peace Talks

                            By Leslie Susser

                            JERUSALEM, Nov. 6 (JTA) -- Ahead of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's upcoming visit to Washington, Israel and the United States are discussing ways to strengthen Palestinian moderates and jump-start a new peace process.

                            Talk of concessions to the Palestinians and moves to bolster Palestinian moderates precede nearly every visit by an Israeli prime minister to Washington. But there are signs that this time, the carrot-and-stick policy may be working.

                            After a prolonged boycott of the P.A.'s radical Hamas-led government by Israel and most of the international community, the Palestinians are close to forming a new administration that could pave the way for peace talks.

                            The new American initiative coincides with talk about pulling U.S. forces out of Iraq. As they develop an exit strategy, the Americans seem to be showing greater urgency on other regional issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian question.

                            The officials believe the more the Americans develop their exit strategy from Iraq, the more they'll want tosee movement on the Israeli-Palestinian track, which would enable them to claim a significant measure of success in their overall regional policy.

                            In this context, former U.S. Secretary of State James Baker, who has been working on the exit strategy, is expected to make proposals soon for a renewal of talks on both the Syrian and Palestinian tracks.

                            The Israelis also are taking a more proactive approach. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, anxious not to have new outside initiatives foisted on Israel, has sent messages to Palestinian moderates to the effect that Israel is ready to make rapid progress toward a two-state solution -- but on condition that any new P.A. government accepts the international community's three conditions: recognition of Israel, renunciation of violence and acceptance of previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements.

                            "If a new Palestinian government accepts the international benchmarks and stops the Kassam rocket fire, Israel will be prepared to go a long way. But the Palestinian side will have to budge first," a senior official told JTA.

                            Israel, he said, would then be prepared to release prisoners, stop military operations, fast-track to an interim Palestinian mini-state and discuss the contours of a final peace deal.

                            "Until now Israel's foreign policy problem has been that, with the radical Hamas in power, the Palestinian moderates do not control the levers of power," the official explained. "Until recently, the main thrust of Israeli policy was to solve the conundrum through unilateral moves. Now the approach is to find ways of circumventing Hamas."

                            The Palestinians also are moving to create conditions for dialogue. Abbas, from Fatah, and P.A. Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, of Hamas, met Monday in Gaza to finalize arrangements on the establishment of a new government.

                            Hamas' policy until now has been to offer a long-term cease-fire, or hudna, without having to recognize the Jewish state. Israel suspects that without a wider agreement, the Palestinians would simply use the cease-fire to build up their military power in order to attack more effectively at a later date.

                            Abbas, on the other hand, dismisses the hudna idea and says he wants a full-fledged peace treaty with Israel. In an early November meeting with rabbis and Muslim clerics, Abbas said a cease-fire would not hold, and that what he wanted was a lasting peace on the Israeli-Egyptian model.

                            The moves to jump-start peace talks will be high on the agenda when Olmert and Bush meet in Washington next week. Israeli officials say Olmert will want to discuss the implications for the region and for Israel of an American pullout from Iraq. But the main priority is likely to be the threat posed to Israel and the West by Iran's nuclear weapons drive.

                            In advance of the Bush-Olmert meeting, U.S. National Intelligence Director John Negroponte came to Israel in early November to discuss ways of weakening Iran's fundamentalist regime. Negroponte reportedly was particularly interested in Israeli assessments of the degree to which disaffected minorities in Iran could destabilize the mullahs' rule.

                            Israel and the United States see Iran as the major threat to their security in coming years, and Olmert will use his meeting with Bush to exchange assessments and coordinate future moves. Israeli officials note that although both sides prefer a diplomatic solution, neither is ruling out a military option.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                              The political scene in Washington is shifting as a result of the recent elections. Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats will clearly want to be involved in confirming a plan to exit Iraq. James Baker is in a key role to shape this withdrawal, with the Israel/Palestinian issue now intimately connected. Look for all these folks to press for the withdrawal from "the mountains of Israel" and the Old City of Jerusalem. The check for Olmert is already in the mail!
                              Folks sometimes I think we are living in the 1930's all over again. The President of Iran is the new Hitler emerging. For Czechoslovakia, let Israel play that role. Chamberlain can be played by any number of emerging players, all anxious to tell a scared populace that there will indeed be peace in our time. A "sellout" is coming... Meanwhile the AOC (alliance of civilizations) led by Spain and Turkey (Oh oh, Turkey appears to be part of the Ezekiel scenario) is raising its head. Should be an interesting few weeks ahead. I wonder who if anybody will play Churchill!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel Pt II

                                Today there was an article on Israeli high nano-tech military inention of a tiny "hornet". see the thread on this topic. My reason to post a reply here is that the "Mountains of Israel" were initially cleared by heaven sent hornets. Read Joshua 24:12 "I sent the hornet ahead of you which drove them out..you did not do it with your own sword and bow" I am concerned that Israel will be trusting in its own little man-made hornets when it should be trusting in the Divine Hivekeeper for protection.

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