Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Israel VS Hamas - Part II (Merged Threads)

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

    The visit was scheduled before the Gaza crisis broke out, but the US administration decided not to cancel the trip and to try to focus on getting Israeli and Fatah leaders to resume dialogue.
    Canceling outright would have been a big embarassment - had these talks not already been announced I seriously doubt that the US would be having these discussions at this juncture - JMHO...

    Comment


    • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

      Originally posted by faith


      US hopes to renew Olmert-Abbas talks
      http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...rticle/Printer

      The US is attempting to renew talks between the Israeli and Palestinian leadership despite the crisis in Gaza, according to senior American officials. Deputy National Security Adviser Elliot Abrams and Assistant Secretary of State David Welch left Washington Monday evening and will be holding talks with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. The visit was scheduled before the Gaza crisis broke out, but the US administration decided not to cancel the trip and to try to focus on getting Israeli and Fatah leaders to resume dialogue.
      With what is going on over there, how can anyone be thinking about this. The only thing that will happen, Israel will be forced to give up more while the Palestinians give their usual lip service.
      ...and everyone will call it progress.

      Comment


      • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

        Originally posted by SAT
        With what is going on over there, how can anyone be thinking about this. The only thing that will happen, Israel will be forced to give up more while the Palestinians give their usual lip service.
        ...and everyone will call it progress.
        My personal feeling too is...if the US pressures Israel to give up any more land, the US has been adequately warned...I think the "warnings" are over and we can kiss the US, as we know it, bye bye. Keep your eyes on Jesus!

        Comment


        • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

          Originally posted by Biblenuggetlady
          My personal feeling too is...if the US pressures Israel to give up any more land, the US has been adequately warned...I think the "warnings" are over and we can kiss the US, as we know it, bye bye. Keep your eyes on Jesus!
          I may be mistaken but last I knew the US was not pressing Israel for more land givaways - rather it was Olmert himself trying to peddle that idea to Bush , Blair and Chiric....

          Comment


          • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

            Though the roadmap, for all intents and purposed never got past phase one...it called for all "settlements" to be dismantled that were built after March 2001. It was to "end the occupation that began in 1967" and it put a lot of burdens onto Israel to "ensure humanitarian needs of the Palestinians is met". The US's role in pushing for a "Palestinian State" on God's land, in my opinion is touching the apple of His eye, so whether the President asks for more land or not to be physically given up, I have no clue, but he has already emphasized is that God's land be divided for Arab and Jews, that is what I meant. Creating a "Palestinian State" is wrong, wrong, wrong. I think that this role may be soon taken over by someone else besides Bush, Bush seems to have lost his zeal that he had, for everything.

            http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2003/20062.htm

            Comment


            • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

              Originally posted by Biblenuggetlady
              Though the roadmap, for all intents and purposed never got past phase one...it called for all "settlements" to be dismantled that were built after March 2001. It was to "end the occupation that began in 1967" and it put a lot of burdens onto Israel to "ensure humanitarian needs of the Palestinians is met". The US's role in pushing for a "Palestinian State" on God's land, in my opinion is touching the apple of His eye, so whether the President asks for more land or not to be physically given up, I have no clue, but he has already emphasized is that God's land be divided for Arab and Jews, that is what I meant. Creating a "Palestinian State" is wrong, wrong, wrong. I think that this role may be soon taken over by someone else besides Bush, Bush seems to have lost his zeal that he had, for everything.

              http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2003/20062.htm
              Certainly you are spot on re: the so called Road Map - which for all entensive purposes died when Sharon was taken out of the way (i.e. as he was the only one on the Israeli side that seemed to play it up now and then)....

              Actually I was refering to the more recent so called "Convergence" Plan as dreamed up and being pushed by Olmert - i.e. that attempts to set new boundries on a one-sided basis - and give away more land in the process....

              Comment


              • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...14523ABCD6.htm

                Wow, this is a very interesting read. Has anyone heard of this Rabbi Froman before? You have to read all the article.

                A way out of the Gaza crisis
                The day before the tanks rolled into Gaza, Froman had been due to launch an extraordinary peace initiative at a news conference in Jerusalem with Muhamed Abu Tir, the Hamas MP, Khaled Abu Arafa, the Palestinian minister for Jerusalem, and three Israeli rabbis.

                The panel was to have made a collective call for the release of Corporal Gilad Shalit, the beginning of a process to release all Palestinian prisoners and the immediate start of negotiations with Hamas on the framework for a peace deal based on 1967 borders.

                They would also have announced that Jewish and Muslim religious leaders could achieve peace where Israel's politicians had failed.

                But the response from Israel's security establishment was crushing.

                Stymied

                Hours before the meeting was due to start, the Shin Bet detained Abu Tir and Abu Arafa and warned them not to attend the meeting. The news conference’s organisers were forced to contact the other rabbis - who were already on the road to Jerusalem - and tell them not to come.



                Ironies abound in the history of Froman's peace efforts. His uncle was killed in the 1930s by Ezzedine al-Qassam, the militant Palestinian cleric whose name was later adopted by Hamas's armed wing. Yet Froman is on record as saying he has more in common with "my brothers and sisters in Hamas" than with secular Israelis.

                His motivations stem from a deep commitment to the once-integral universal tradition in Jewish thought, best summarised by Rabbi Hillel's "do unto others" maxim. He believes that while the land of Israel is holy, sovereignty over it is not and so aspires to live as a Palestinian Jew in a Palestinian state. For the past two years, however, he has been living under police protection because of death threats from other settlers.

                Should his peace efforts bear fruit, perhaps his national-religious neighbours will be reminded that in the messianic age, according to Isaiah, the wolf is supposed to lie down with the lamb.

                Comment


                • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                  Rabbi Froman has apparently been around for years pushing his own version of "peace" - a Google shows that he had any number of "peace" meetings with Arafat...

                  Also found this of interest re: Rabbi Forman


                  Jews Have “Power and Opportunity”

                  In a disturbing, revealing article recently in The Jerusalem Report (October 25, 1999), a mysterious Jewish Rabbi, Menachem Froman, made what he called “A Modest Proposal.” The rabbi said that the Jews and Israel must aggressively frame the future and achieve a vision of “Jerusalem at the End of Days.”

                  Jerusalem, said Rabbi Froman, must be made “Capital of the World.” We now have the “power and opportunity” to declare it so, he boldly stated, adding: “Isn’t it only fitting that Jerusalem be the seat of the United Nations’ cultural bodies, human rights organizations, scholarly forums... Isn’t it only proper that Jerusalem be the place where members of all faiths convene to renounce their breeding of prejudice, hostility, and war?”

                  Rabbi Froman confided that, “Meetings and discussions are already taking place among (high-level) Jews, Muslims, and Christians with the aim of making Jerusalem into the capital of peace.”

                  Then this shocker: Rabbi Froman confided that he has had private meetings with Palestinian Chairman Yassar Arafat. Said the Rabbi: “In the two long talks I held with Chairman Arafat on this idea, he characterized it as an excellent one, repeating over and over: ‘Jerusalem, the capital of the world!’”

                  Rabbi Froman wrote that the plan to make Jerusalem into the World Capital of Peace is quickly being firmed up “at the highest echelons in Jerusalem, Gaza, Washington, Brussels, and elsewhere.” And, he related, the Vatican, too, has given its stamp of approval: “The Pope has repeatedly expressed his desire to have the start of the new millennium mark the end of the historical conflict between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and he will surely want to attach this significance to his planned pilgrimage to Jerusalem.”

                  “Other Christian denominations,” said the rabbi, will “endorse the plan on similar grounds”—to enable the reconciliation of the three major faiths. The plan, then, is expected to guarantee unity and diversity, love and tolerance: Global Peace.

                  http://www.texemarrs.com/121999/cap.htm

                  Comment


                  • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                    Tom...check this quote:

                    (Rabbi Froman and Sheikh Talal Sider have been working to get a hudna accepted as a way forward, to get the army to agree with Hamas to put down their ...)

                    http://www.jerusalempeacemakers.org/...interview.html

                    Rabbi Froman says, ?We need to make a primitive peace. I am a proud primitive; we are two primitive people.? Peace is not going to come by academic or military arrangements; we have to acknowledge this deep, ancient and primitive, almost primal, connection that we both have to the land, to see that we ate not separate, we are just one. Ibrahim and I travelled all over the US and UK this summer, and we found that there are pro-Israel and pro-Palestine demonstrations, one trying to outdo the other to gain public approval. We both think that they both have it wrong. There need to be ?we are all one family? demonstrations, and ?no-one can make us separate? demonstrations. We have to give up our ego-centred, arrogant, nationalistic perspectives, both Israelis and Palestinians.

                    As a Kabbalist, can I find the sparks of holiness in the Palestinian connection to the olive trees?

                    That is the mystic path. This is a mystical land, the land of the Essenes, the Kabbalists, the Sufis, going back thousands of years, so many layers upon layers. On one hand it has been soaked in blood and all the blood that has been shed needs to be healed, and the mystical healing path is the way to do it. That healing path is in Judaism, in Christianity, in Islam; it is the mother of all those paths, the essence, and that essence needs to be tapped into. We need to re-remember and remind each other of that. It can be a way to unite us and transform the reality of how the Israelis treat Palestinians in their territories, and the hatred that many Palestinians have towards Israelis. We need to get to the underlying truth and reality that unites us. We have to tap into that essence to heal.

                    Comment


                    • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                      Of course I've been way wrong may times before - however I very seriously doubt that Rabbi Froman will, in any meaningful way, actually shape events in the coming weeks or months...

                      Comment


                      • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                        I wasn't implying that he did...he looks like Israel's "Michael Moore".

                        Comment


                        • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                          Originally posted by Biblenuggetlady
                          I wasn't implying that he did...he looks like Israel's "Michael Moore".

                          Agreed - certainly he seems to enjoy the "lime-light"...

                          Comment


                          • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                            http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/736816.html


                            He's The Man

                            'I'm the man,' Meshal says in first comments since crisis broke

                            By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff

                            The first speech yesterday by Khaled Meshal, the Damascus-based head of Hamas' political bureau, since the abduction of Corporal Gilad Shalit was intended mainly to reinforce his leadership position vis-a-vis both Palestinians and Israel. His statements contained little real news. He reiterated the Hamas promise not to hurt Shalit and the position that he would be released only in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners held in Israel.

                            "The brothers on the ground will decide the soldier's fate," he claimed, as if he had not laid claim to setting all of the rules of the game himself just a moment ago. Meshal spoke of "terror" as the Palestinian nation's strategic choice in its "resistance," despite the fact that his own men have been making considerable efforts over the past several days to send the Israeli public the message that Meshal is interested in a comprehensive diplomatic solution and not just a cease-fire.


                            Meshal emphasized his independence from Damascus and Tehran, but immediately thereafter heaped praise and thanks on Syrian President Bashar Assad.

                            "I yearn for my God and am not afraid of death," Meshal boasted. The tight security procedures before the press conference said otherwise.

                            Comment


                            • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              http://today.reuters.com/News/newsAr...-RelatedNews-1

                              A palace official said Abdullah also warned of the repercussions of a widening cycle of Israeli-Palestinian violence that would torpedo efforts to resume peace talks.

                              Israel says the Gaza offensive is aimed at pressuring militants to return a soldier abducted by militants and to stop rocket attacks against southern Israel.

                              Jordan fears a spillover of violence in the Palestinian territories across its borders and has strongly prodded Israel to engage Abbas as a peace partner.


                              But Israel's offensive in the Gaza strip, which has killed about 50 Palestinians and drawn international criticism, has also raised passions in Jordan where anti-Israeli feelings are running high.

                              The prospects for stable Palestinian statehood in the West Bank, which Israel captured from neighboring Jordan in the 1967 Middle East war, are of special concern to King Abdullah who has a Palestinian majority in his own country.

                              Comment


                              • Re: NEW Sticky: Israel and Gaza - The Saga Continues! (MERGED)

                                BREAKING Tuesday 10 PM EDST:

                                04:05 Death toll in explosion at Hamas militant`s house in Gaza rises to 6 (AP)

                                03:21 Palestinians claim five dead in IAF strike in Gaza Strip (Reuters)
                                www.haaretz.com

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X