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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Did anyone catch Victor Mordecai on Southwest Radio Church today? Very interesting views on the situation in Israel today including potential civil war, also on the Kurds in Iraq, Christians in Bethlehem, and a new Israeli government party being birthed by christians and jews together, headed by Victor Mordecai himself.

    Listen on May 12 & 13 -

    http://www.swrc.com/broadcasts/2005/may.htm#homepage

    Comment


    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Hello everyone!
      As you can see, I'm the new guy here. I enjoy communicating with other Christians, and I look forward to learning much from all of you.

      I have not read all of the pages of this thread regarding the settlements in Israel being turned over to the "Palestinians", so forgive me if the question was already raised and answered.

      Why do you think God would get angry, regarding the settlements?
      Didn't God originally give Israel a huge portion of land?
      If I recall, it stretched from the Suez to the Euphrates.

      Hope to hear from you.

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Originally posted by Humble
        Why do you think God would get angry, regarding the settlements?
        Greetings, Humble....

        Welcome aboard!

        The premise here is that especially the land generally described as the "West Bank" in the current disengagement plans, is the land described in Ezek 36 as the "Mountains of Israel." We extrapolate the conversation to also include the "Gaza Strip," which is actually southern coastal. We presume that God is very "Jealous" of the land which He gave to the Israelis, and take at face value that He sort of feels a particular attachment to the land which the Israelis currently possess, and isn't going to be too happy to see anyone except the Children of Israel possessing it.

        The picture that HSB (the originator of the thread) is painting here is that the settlements are largely inhabited by orthodox Jews who are counting on God to protect their homes, because they also view this land as God's land, and their inheritance given to them by God himself.

        Now, that's as good a synopsis as I can conjure up in so short a time and since HSB isn't regularly online to defend himself (because he's presently in Israel) you'll have to wait until he gets back, or otherwise posts, to get his personal spin.

        Maybe some of the others who have participated will jump in here

        We would welcome your thoughts!

        PlumBob

        Comment


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          I look forward to reading HSB's reply.
          I guess I'm a little confused as to why God would suddenly become irrate, when the original boundaries that he set out for his people, have been under control of the gentiles for ages.

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            Well, it's an End Times Thing....

            God has now brought His children (Israel) back home to their land... Although for centuries the land was under control of gentiles, it is now under control of the Jews, as was prophesied way before the gentiles had their rule there. The question then becomes, if these are the end times, and if the creation of the Jewish state Israel is really fulfillment of prophesy concerning the end times, then would the disengagement plan trigger God's wrath against 1) those who would try to take that land away from the Jews, 2) those Jews who would capriciously give God's land away, and 3) those others who would support such a thing.

            In particular read posts #3, 16-18, 21-26, and many others (that HSB posted ad infinitum - (HSB, I really do love ya, bro!)) stating his position.

            HSB, I can't believe I'm defending your repetition of position here!!!! Hope the trip is going well! Say "Hello" to Mrs. B from PB. And to DtB.

            ZionGene, I see that you're on. Jump in and give me a helping hand here.
            Last edited by PlumBob; 05-15-2005, 07:33 PM.

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            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              Psalm 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
              2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
              3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
              4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
              5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

              G-D is not mocked, HE is in controol........HE has brought HIS people back to HIS land both to chastise and to bless them. and the chastizement will continue untill

              Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
              9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

              Amen; Lord

              Comment


              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                An article from today's Debka seems to indicate that although we may have perceived a lull in the progress of the disengagement, it may get cranked up again.

                http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1026
                Saudi Oil and Backing for US Is Contingent on Israeli Concessions
                DEBKAfile Special Analysis May 15, 2005
                It's rather lengthy, so I won't paste it in here.

                Jack Kinsella doesn't address the material above specifically, but all taken together, it appears that we get to the same place.
                http://www.omegaletter.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=5335
                Boiling Point . . . Jack Kinsella Prophecy - Signs
                Tuesday, May 10, 2005
                Both are excellent reads.

                Comment


                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Dear Friends;

                  well my wife and I are home safe and sound from over three weeks in Israel. During that time we toured through the settlements of Gush Katif (the very town that is getting the mortar bombs), through Maale Adumim, Ariel, Gush Etzion etc. We got to the top of Elon Morea near Shekem where it is believed that Abraham was given the view of the whole land by God (spectacular) and Bet El to see where Jacob slept (also to meet the folks at Israel National Radio- I told them they have many friends over here!!) All told we logged over 3500 km by car in a land that is only a few hundred km long from top to bottom. In the next few days as we get back to normal I will try and post a few observations and answer questions that folks might have. We did stay at Kalia right beside Qumrum, hoping that Vendyl might be there digging. I have met his daughter some time ago and she had offered to include us on the dig if we wanted.
                  It has been a wonderful trip, for which we are so thankful!! We used cars for most of the trekking other than the climbing by foot and hiking around Jerusalem. The last few days we used a "protected bus" for the group trip around Judea and Samaria (including a trip to Hebron- not just the cave of Machpelah where Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their wives are buried but to the little Jewish outposts in the city and dig site that has unearthed the original Israelite Hebron where David reigned. So much to share, but in due course. Please pray for safe return for the others Monday morning May 23rd (including my daughter, Don the Baptist, and the rest of the group..all told we were 27 in number for the last 10 days) Love HSB

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    One short story for the folks out there who support Gush Katif. Last week we were driving down the Jordan valley south from of Beth Shean. I looked over to my left and saw a flock of sheep and a shepherd- quite pastoral. Then I almost ran off the road. To my absolute surprise the lead sheep was ORANGE in colour. There was no place to get off the road to take a picture, but I was able to look again at the flock in the distance as we passed. I believe the shepherd had put one of the bright orange T-shirts on the sheep, or possibly even sprayed the animal with orange spray paint. Everybody I told this story to enjoyed it immensely and indicated that a picture would have been delightful! HSB (PS I assume you know that orange has been the colour of resistance against the evacuations planned for this summer, much like the struggle in Ukraine recently) There are sections of the country, particularly in Jerusalem and the west bank settlements where a lot of orange is visible. Contrast that with my experience at the airport when waiting to pick up a friend. No orange anywhere to be seen! While I waited near the car rental desks I spotted a lady sitting at one of the counters wearing an orange scarf- I asked her if it was connected with Gush Katif...oh NO she said emphatically, company colors!! There are certainly radically different sentiments in the country.
                    Last edited by HSB; 05-23-2005, 10:40 AM.

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      Praise God you made it back home safely..praying for a safe return for the others.

                      What a trip...oh that would have been so neat to get a picture of that orange sheep. Orange showing up everywhere..even on sheep

                      You were a brave soul to ask that woman about her orange scarf. I would be nervous to ask...I'd ask the wrong person and before I know it..I would be involved in an international incident of some kind..my picture on the Jerusalem Post with 50 guns aimed at me.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        HSB,

                        It's good to know you're back. Did you get any good pictures, orange sheep or otherwise? Concerning the dig, I am not convinced Vendyl is necessarily right but it would still be fun to dig. And even if you didn't find the ark, so what? It would still be fun to dig. There has got to be a lot of archeological treasure buried over there. It would also be interesting to dig in the west bank an unearth Hebrew artifacts. Of course, the PA would not allow me to talk about it. There is also the fear factor (not TV). Tourists are usually safe, but there's always an exception. Did you ever wonder if you getting into trouble in all of those 3,500 kilometers?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          Glad you're home safe and sound.... Will be interested to hear your insights.

                          A new member, Humble, is waiting to hear you discourse on something. Be sure to review Humble's posts 617 & 619.

                          PB

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            PlumBob, Lightseeker, Layittoheart and others -thanks for all your prayers and interest in our trip. All of the folks made it back safely this morning (including Don the Baptist and my daughter) Don will have stories to tell as well about this tour. I will review the posts I missed while out of the country, and reply to Humble (what a great name!!) Re Vendyl, I pointed out the Cave of the Column to the group in passing but never mentioned his name. It would take a few hours to explain what he is doing along with his background. I applaud the interest in Jewish roots but he has clearly left the "Christian fold". Nevertheless God may use him to reveal long buried treasures and help bring the Jews back home to Israel. Personally I have climbed all through the Cave area where he is focussing his efforts, spoken with the expert in Texas who did the analysis on the incense etc. I monitor Vendyl's work quite closely. HSB. I am hoping someone in our group got a photo of the orange sheep. I was leading the first "packet" of three cars, while Don the Baptist led one of the other packets. All told we had 9 cars in action (far cheaper than bus with a driver in fact plus we had flexibility of movement) worked out great with lots of cheers and honks of delight from others in both Jewish and Arab sections when they saw 9 Canadian flags going past. I must mention that Don's packet saw more of the country than planned on the tour due to frequent unplanned deviations from the itinerary (ie getting lost)
                            Last edited by HSB; 05-23-2005, 10:39 AM.

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                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              Wow, all Canadians eh? I didn't know, HSB. Me too.

                              I also have a couple of friends in Israel right now touring with Kay Arthur. I really wish I could have gone but three weeks is a long time. Maybe one day.

                              Hey thanks for debriefing with us now that you're home.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                To SandyLion: while my wife and I were over there for over 3 weeks in time for a ceremony at Yad Vashem, the "group" that included Don the Baptist was in Israel May 12 to 23. About 10 days is enough the first time to get a sense of the Land and yet avoid total meltdown (mental as well as physical ) What we have done in the past is to book through kibbutz hotels for group rates and use rental cars- all quite inexpensive actually. My vision is for lots of Christians to not only get over to Israel but to spend serious time in the original mountain country of the original nation (that's the socalled West Bank) with its settlements of Orthodox Jews and incredible biblical history. Eg Joshua is buried just across the road from where we stayed in Ariel. I really hope you can make it over there some time. On the airplane back home I sat beside a young man from California- he gave me his email address and asked that we keep in touch for the next time we do it...we wants to come!!! Perhaps we could organize a Wedg trip to Israel... I don't want to solicit anything, but maybe this is something that the moderators could consider. By doing it ourselves we avoid the cost of bus/driver/Value added tax of 17% etc. I have done five of these trips over the years..we even had folks in their 80s with us

                                Humble: I have read your earlier post as well as PlumBob's response. PB has a way with words, being more eloquent and succinct than I am. But I would like to answer a bit more fully your question about why God would be angry if the Jews lost the land now in their possession. Clearly part of the answer lies in our view that we are getting closer to the end of the age. With that there have been signals eg the rebirth of Israel, 6 day war in 1967 that restored the area of David's kingdom to the Jews etc. In my mind I see a difference between aggressive activity to try and advance God's plan (eg invading other countries or stealing their possessions) as distinct from aggressive activity to block or rescind God's plan. Thus I don't think it is a sin to have us sit on the sidelines over the centuries and not try to recapture the Land on behalf of the Jews. But clearly God has helped them through a series of DEFENSIVE wars that were started by the arabs. To now attempt to remove Jews from the Land that God covenanted to Abraham and his decendents for ever is to poke Him in the "apple of his eye". I am watching as the entire world is starting to array against this small nation. Incredible pressure is being applied to surrender what in effect is the entire original kingdom of King Saul and the very area God addresses in Ezekiel 36. God will intervene for HIS OWN NAME'S SAKE!! I am increasingly convinced that a "solution" that involves the forced eviction of West Bank Jews from their homes will bring down the wrath of God's judgment. Sorry to say I see America in the middle of all this with yet another "coalition of the willing" with broad international representation to implement a Palestinian state. They will arrive just in time for what promises to be the "Mother of all earthquakes". Pray that USA will not be involved in protecting its Middle East Oil interests in such an action. Some suggest it will be the Russians who lead the way. Personally I have a whole series of objections to that view. Time will tell and soon, given the President's commitment to leaving a legacy of peace in the ME during his last term in office. HSB
                                Last edited by HSB; 05-23-2005, 12:32 PM.

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