Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Grief; Don
[George of the Land-of-George... Chief Prince of 'Materialism' and 'Perversion'] ???}...
Response:
"well there is nothing to say you are WRONG in this."

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

1. Why can’t soos mean helicopter? When you want to invade, takeover or peaceover a country, you need a place to land unless you just want to deliver ordnance. Are there any convenient landing zones for a forced peaceful entry? Helicopters do much better for conveying troops. They ascend up into the sky, they fly faster than the cranes and come quickly as storm upon the land. Today, big helicopters that lift equipment are called sky cranes.

2. Cars have horse and are powered by many horses. They travel as chariots.

3. When Gog comes to Israel is the whole horde in agreement or are they just there together? At the end of WWII, Russia came from one side to Berlin and America the other. We weren’t the best of buds back then. What about Kosovo? The Russians did the same thing. The Hezbollah are there right now as agents of Persia and are waiting for the prince of Persia to knock on the door. How much would it take for the gang to quickly assemble for the same peaceful purpose?

4. HSB, in post 440 you mentioned George is probably Gog. Don Brooks, in post 479 you suggested Magog is the land of Gog. America is the land of the mighty dollar. Whose picture is on the dollar?

[Sandylion]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PS to Zion Gene,

There is a new thread called "Purpose driven, seeker senstive stuff" (I think) started by lewishb. He was the first to get it going so I just went from there. You can follow along and read what I believe in that thread.

Okay boys, back to the point....

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

to all: happy thought for the day..Christ the Lord is risen today, hallelujah!!!

Lith: helicopter is probably the way to go for the reasons you mention. MaGog in Hebrew simply means Land of Gog according to an Orthodox man I met years ago in Jerusalem. He was the first to show me the connection in the Hebrew between George and Gog, and said George (W) was not only son of George but from the Land of George W also (for Washington) I won't bother to go into all the further discussions about George/Gog connections (in many languages it is the same name!!!

regarding timing for all of this: from this summer on will get very interesting. Will the evacuation of Gaza go ahead as scheduled or get folded into a broader settlement that will take longer (Sharon had been pushing hard to make this partial evacuation the Final Solution...ouch bad choice of words here) but that clearly will not fly. Pressure is mounting from all sides to get on with the End Game of a full Palestinian state but there has not been much coverage about actual details, mostly just speculations. It would not surprise me if the whole mess drags on a bit longer into 2006 but not forever. Pretty soon outside players will get involved to push this thing along...too many secret little sidebar deals have already been made to tolerate endless delays.

regarding the "horde" you are absolutely right in the examples given. Sometimes the most amazing "coalitions" emerge from the shadows, with no love or even respect amongst the players. That is why I have been suggesting the possibility all along of an "internationally sanctioned" effort, much like the coalition that threw Saddam out of Kuwait. In the eyes of the world it was very diverse in representation, yet in the final analysis over 15/16 was American contribution.

Here's a further little scenario possibility. Given the big heat on Iran to stop it's nuclear program (this no doubt involves pressure from EU that has trade implications) ... we get a major headline "Iran agrees to stop nuclear program in exchange for fast track of Palestinian state" They will argue the reason they have needed nukes is because of israeli hegemony in the area and oppression of the poor innocent original inhabitants of the land of Palestine. If the Western powers would only get involved, like they did to help the poor Kosovars, then all would be well! HSB adds "we might even get Peace in our Time...not" Folks you could have Iranian troops sideby side with US troops in a matter of days.

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB, the "Final Solution" may be politically incorrect but is it prophetically correct? I think so. Your scenario possibility seems very real.

[Guest]

Gog is Where?

please note that Ezekiel 38:15 / 39:2 says that Gog comes out of the country to the far north of Israel. this is Russia. not america, land of George!
the Bible must be read in context of what it says, not what we want to put into it! the Gog war happens AFTER the AC's peace has been established 38:8. the Gog war does NOT establish the peace, it is the RESULT of the peace....
Lewis

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I personally believe that the only valid and legitimate method of interpreting scripture-- and prophecy especially-- is to resort to means which are hinted at in scripture itself, as it is foiund in the books which are commonly know as the Old and New Testaments. That excludes all oral traditions; conclusions of mystics; private interpretations which may be arrived at by dreams today; and even such interpretations by the Rambam, or the Talmud; or from germatria; etc.; or some Catholic sister somewhere out in seclusion. That also means, that when I look at a text like Ezekiel 38, the meaning of words in the text cannot be derived at by any speculation which goes beyond what scripture itself says, since I believe that God in His infinite wisdom, has indicated the primary meaning of words and phrases, by the way He allowed them to be used in the earliest references in the bible itself.

I see no validity in importing the meaning and use of a word from outside of the bible, and making reference of its use in the text to fit it. That is describes by the fancy term “eisegesis,” which means to bring something into the text from outside of it, as over against the term“exegesis,” which means to get a fundamental meaning from within the text, and its overall biblical environment. In my humble opinion, we are slipping and sliding with the text
of Ezekiel

I also go to scripture itself to add and prove the other point, that only interpretations of bible prophecy-–or of any bible doctrines for that matter-–which issue forth from minds which have been renewed by the Spirit of God through the new birth, can get prophecy right. The rest are just
nice speculations, and mostly erroneous. The statement that “for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." In Revelation 19:10, clinches that point for me. I learn from this text that one must first have the testimony of Jesus Christ in his or her soul, to be able to witness to it. And that that testimony is–-among other things-–the only correct interpreter of prophecy. And John made it perfectly clear that he had this testimony and qualification, before he proceeded with his revelation

To repeat my points: The only valid interpretation of words in scripture must come from scripture-–especially the earlier parts of it-- and are independent of any imported concepts, which may influenced by time or culture, if the meaning of the words or concepts had definite meanings in early biblical references.

Secondly, interpretations of bible prophecy today, which originate outside of the born-again community--of those who believe in Christ-- are mainly unreliable




.

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

The meaning of prophesy is not always dicated by the primary meaning of words and phrases or by the way God allowed them to be used in the earliest references in the bible itself.

John 2:19-20 says, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"

The first meaning understood was wrong. The primary meaning is clear. The building was clearly the temple. Destroy meant destroy. Jesus was talking about himself. The primary first interpretation that made sense was wrong.

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Dear Lay It T Heart

I appreciate your last post which was obviously a response to my last one.

I was about to give a quick answer to your objection to my submission, when I reminded myself that appearing to win even the smallest debate, generally does not benefit anybody spiritually.

You certainly chose a great prophetic word when you went for the word "temple." That word gives me much to think about, and I am preparing a careful response. I might also recommend to you that you take a look at the first paragraph of yours, and see if you want to stick with it.

ZionGene

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Wow... miss a day or two and one has pages to catch up on...

It appears to me that there are increasing numbers of people arriving at our site [chat room] who are just here to read-only!!! This is fine, because they certainly are getting a clear understanding of the "Good News" of Salvation. I thank God for the opportunity that He has given us... to share our understanding of His Word [that Word that became Flesh] and His Plan for the Ages... culminating, as it would appear, in our Generation. Snoopy, and Zion Gene, along with PlumBob and HSB have given us all some pretty frightening 'stuff' to contemplate.

Here are two WebSites that are addressing Gog & MaGog right now at this time... Both are Interesting Sites and need to be understood from the perspective as outlined in Zion Gene's last post. They do however shed some light on Geography, History, Genealogy, and Mysticism... One even suggests that Saddam [as Gog] might lead a Group of Islamic Hoards against Israel.... well that was before our Gog took him out of the running.

There is a whole lot of speculation going on out there Folks... Over time there has been much time and effort expended on who this Man [Gog] might be, and what Country he might be from.... In all honesty... I have seen none that 'fit' the bill like the one we are discussing right here on this Thread... This really is scary stuff...

http://www.gogumogog.com/html/letter_to_bush.html [Secular - Kabalah] This is an open letter to the President... Be careful with this one... What God does to the Land from which Gog comes, is not pretty... Sodom & Gemorah might give us a clue. Don't be decieved!

http://aibi.gospelcom.net/aibi/Gog_and_Magog.htm [an Asian Christian College] Here we have reference to The Wall of Gog [Great Wall of China]??? You decide!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hello Everyone.....
Just a couple of thoughts tonite.

This has been a wonderful day of reflection for the PlumBobs - restful and refreshing. At home we have discussed a number of subjects which are near and dear to us here in the PlumBob home, and to this thread in particular, and the whole WeDG board in general. The summation is that we are indeed Blessed beyond our wildest imaginations - the greatest Blessing of all being that God has so graciously grafted us into His family tree. If indeed there is anyone out there that has been reading along for these two months or so, and you aren't yet sure that you absolutely belong to Him - you're not sure that you're a Child of the King, then indeed you CAN have that assurance. Perhaps the times are growing very short - perhaps not. But prudence would beg you to give your life to Him, the Creator of the Universe. It's not about what you know, or what we know - it's not about religion, or doing good works. It's about a personal relationship - between you and God. One that you can have, in the wink of an eye. Don't let the time pass you by.

Now, a couple of things concerning the thread-
After all these days, I still had not come to a complete understanding of the topography and geography of the areas of Israel about which we have been talking. Here are a couple of little maps that made things very much clearer for me. The first one, http://www.historicjesus.com/maps/israelmap.html shows again the general topography, showing that there is a mountain range (the lightest green) running essentially northward from the bottom of Israel, northward to well beyond Jerusalem. The interesting thing to get from this map is the notations of Gaza, and the "west bank" areas, the land which tacitly Israel is supposed to give away.

The second map, at http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Topography.asp does an especially nice job of showing the "Mountains of Israel" stretchng some 50 - 60 miles northward from the Dead Sea. In usual map parlance, the mountains are brown and the valleys green.

Finally, the map at http://www.science.co.il/Israel-map-Carta.asp locates the cities and towns. All taken together, this has helped me greatly.

The PlumBob is going to take a few days hiatus from the thread - for 2 months or so now, I've been swimming w/ the leviathans here. It's time for PlumBob to get up on his own 2 feet and go form his own opinions about this whole subject. That is going to require a good bit of reading and studying, but I hope to be much better informed at the end. I won't have gone far, and if anything really sizzling pops, I'll be back ! See ya all in a few days.

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Talking about taking a break Plumbob? I have been thinking of how nice and charitable a gesture it would be, if the few of us who have contrubuted to this thread would all go home.

Others members of this board must have gotten the feeling for a weeks now, that their efforts to get attention to some other subject, were becoming quite futile: you know how big numbers attract attention in our society, whether they represent a good thing or not.

Here is what I am going to do.

I am going to stop contributing to this thread, even if Gog appears in my rear-view mirror. And if he does, I will let you know on a new thread.

Let's kindly give our other good friends some space

Shalom Ezekiel 36!

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PLUMBOB, ZIONGENE, HSB, SNOOPY, and all...

I recognize that this Thread may have run its course, however, please consider this...
Where else can anyone tune into such insightful, well presented, diverse opinions, presented without ranker or vindictiveness, giving a Scriptural basis, and balanced evidences for a unique perspective on current events. There has been thousands of 'hits' on this Site [The owners must be delighted no end!]...

SOOooo.... my new found Friends... take a sabbatical if you must, BUT... please from time to time give us your thoughts, opinions and commentary. The World needs to hear what you guys have to say... you have been and continue to be given insights that most of the World has not seen... Warnings of coming events that will change the shape of World Governance... This is not the time to close our Shop, fold up our Tents, and head for the Hills... But rather, lets raise the alarm... TIME IS RUNNING OUT for the Gentiles, and a WINE PRESS is being prepared for His People...

Why would we not take every advantage to tell the World this NEWS????

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Oh, my!

[Snoopy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I find it very interesting that people on this thread have given their insights as to what they feel will be the outcome of the final days and the events unfolding as the pieces fall into place everyday on the news. Am I the only one here that finds it disturbing that if things play out, as we see them doing today....and taking for granted that George W is Gog and his involvement in the Israeli conflict with bring about God's wrath, how can the people of Israel still be blind to the scriptures and not see the words of the bible? How can an example so great be overlooked as not to be coming from God himself? Is there something that we are missing? Is there something else happening in conjunction with this example from God, that non believers will not understand? How can a country so founded in faith, and loved by God, be so confused in the final days without being lead astray by some evil force?

Snoopy