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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Andy: during the first two weeks in May, a group of us will be touring through Israel including West bank communities (eg Hebron, Bethel, Shiloh, Ariel) It promises to be an exciting time to be over there..what with iranian nukes and Hamas terrorists very much in the news. We appreciate your prayers!

    PS: Perhaps this thread will last until the West bank problem is resolved one way or the other. I really believe it is the single greatest factor affecting the biblical prophecy calendar in out time! Let's watch how it all plays out.
    Last edited by HSB; 02-16-2006, 01:24 PM.

    Comment


    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      here's another article:

      West Bank withdrawal 'within days'
      Acting PM orders Israeli forces to remove Jewish enclave near Hebron

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Posted: February 17, 2006
      1:00 a.m. Eastern


      By Aaron Klein
      © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

      JERUSALEM – Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has directed Israeli forces to evacuate within days a small Jewish enclave alongside the biblical city of Hebron in the West Bank and to use all force necessary during the evictions, security officials told WorldNetDaily.

      The order follows Olmert's announcement this week his administration will seek to withdraw from most of the West Bank, which borders major Israeli cities and the country's international airport. Olmert's directions fueled speculation by critics the Israeli official is carrying out isolated evictions of settlers as a tactic to win leftist votes ahead of next month's elections.


      "Olmert knows he will not have the right wing votes. He already has the center. Now he has to flex his muscles against the settlers before the elections to show leftists and extreme leftists he can carry out the Kadima platform of an Israeli withdrawal," charged Israeli nationalist lawmaker Benny Elon.

      Israeli Defense Force officials said they have been ordered to demolish Chazon David, a small Jewish section outside Hebron consisting of a synagogue and a few mobile homes.

      Jews have lived in nearby Hebron – home to the Tomb of the Patriarchs, believed to be the resting place of biblical patriarchs and matriarchs – almost continuously for over 2,500 years. It is considered the oldest Jewish community in the world.

      Hebron spokesman David Wilder told WND, "Olmert needs these evictions. He needs to show he has the strength of [Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon, that he can stand up to the so-called settlers and carry out a withdrawal."

      Wilder pointed out while Olmert is enforcing the removal of a small Jewish outpost, over 3,000 illegal Arab settlements in the area remain intact.

      The IDF sources told WND they have been cleared to use "all necessary force" to remove Chazon David residents.

      Olmert sparked fury here last month when he ordered the IDF to use force against protesters during the demolition of nine homes in the West Bank community of Amona. More than 1,500 soldiers and police officers were called up to destroy the homes after the court system ruled they were constructed without a permit. Aside from the homes, the rest of the Amona community was allowed to remain standing.

      During the demolitions, horse-mounted police, water cannons and specially trained riot officers faced off against hundreds of protesters who massed in Amona in hopes of halting the efforts.

      Israeli television broadcast live footage of demonstrators, including women and children, being dragged and beaten by soldiers. Teenagers with bloody noses and head wounds were seen being removed from the scene. Police were videotaped using batons and gas canisters to clear the area of demonstrators.

      More than 300 protesters were treated in makeshift first aid tents. At least 70 were evacuated to Jerusalem hospitals with moderate-to-serious injuries. Three Israeli nationalist lawmakers, including Elon, were wounded in the clashes.

      As WND reported, over 100,000 Israelis protested in Jerusalem earlier this month to demand a commission of inquiry into the violence at Amona. Olmert at first refused to establish an investigative committee, but last week he relented.

      Olmert this week told the Knesset if his Kadima Party wins next month's elections, Parliament members will be asked to vote on whether to "change Israel's borders" by withdrawing from most of the West Bank, including strategic areas military strategists say are needed to defend Israel from a ground invasion.

      According to most polls, Kadima is poised to win overwhelmingly.

      Olmert justified his plan to vacate the West Bank, which is within rocket firing range of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, by claiming Arabs will soon outnumber Jews and threaten the country's Jewish character.

      But recent studies indicate Olmert is relying on faulty demographic information and that Jews likely will outnumber Arabs by more than double in 20 years.

      One study, titled "Forecast for Israel and the West Bank 2025," found Palestinians have inflated their population figures by as much as 1.5 million. It also said Jewish birthrates are on the rise while Palestinian rates are falling, and that Israel's own statistics fail to account for even low levels of Jewish immigration when calculating national demographic trends.

      Americans Bennet Zimmerman, Roberta Seid and Michael Wise put the current Palestinin-Arab population of the West Bank at 1.4 million and Gaza 1.1 million, for a total of 2.4 million, instead of the 3.8 million reported by the Palestinian Authority Central Bureau of Statistics.

      They found faults in the methods used by the Palestinian Authority to determine its population, including counting the 230,000 Arab residents of Jerusalem twice and retroactively raising growth and birth rates while the rates actually have been declining.

      The allegedly inflated PA population numbers have been accepted by Israel and were used in formulating future demographic statistics, including those reportedly used by Olmert in formulating a West Bank withdrawal.

      "It is ironic that just as we now find Israel is in the best position ever with regard to population, Olmert announces a plan to run away and give up the West Bank, claiming Israel's Jewish character is threatened," said Zimmerman.

      The West Bank is considered landlocked territory not officially recognized as part of any country. Israel calls the land "disputed," while the United Nations says the West Bank is "occupied" by Israel. The Jewish state maintains overall control of most of the area while the Palestinian Authority has jurisdiction in about 40 percent.

      The territory remained under Jordanian rule from 1948 until Israel captured it in 1967 after Jordan's King Hussein ignored Israeli pleas for his country to stay out of the Six Day War. Most countries rejected Jordan's initial claim on the area, which it formally renounced in 1988.



      Terrorist groups have warned if Israel withdraws, they will launch rockets from the West Bank into Israeli cities.

      Many villages in the West Bank, which Israelis commonly refer to as the "biblical heartland," are mentioned throughout the Torah.

      The book of Genesis says Abraham entered Israel at Shechem (Nablus) and received God's promise of land for his offspring. He later was buried in Hebron.

      The nearby town of Beit El, anciently called Bethel meaning "house of God," is where Scripture says the patriarch Jacob slept on a stone pillow and dreamed of angels ascending and descending a stairway to heaven. In that dream, God spoke directly to Jacob and reaffirmed the promise of territory.

      And in Exodus, the holy tabernacle rested in Shiloh, believed to be the first area the ancient Israelites settled after fleeing Egypt.

      Comment


      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Terrorist groups have warned if Israel withdraws, they will launch rockets from the West Bank into Israeli cities.
        What is wrong with Olmet and this picture???? They ( terrorists ) are saying they are going to send rockets into Israel when they withdraw? The PM must be blind to the fact that the terrorists do NOT want peace!
        What is he thinking??

        Am I reading this correctly or am I missing something here??
        Psalm 63:3 Because Your lovingkindness is better than life, My lips will praise You.

        Comment


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          The terrorists will wait till Kadima is elected and then rain down rockets on Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

          It's hard to feel sorry for Israel when it is their democratic process that is putting these foolish men in office. It's worse than the old days of kings when a king got the throne by being a prince. Nowadays these foolish leaders are being put there by popular vote.

          So - it's not just the leadership that is unbelievably blind to what's going on - it's the majority of the people, too (IF Kadima is elected as PM).

          Comment


          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            maybe that is why only one third make it through the refining process. In Israel the politics split along that very fault line (one third are Orthodox people of faith clinging to the settlements and expecting God Himself to hear their prayers. perhaps He will act very soon in a very forceful way!

            Comment


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              Hi Folks:

              It's been a while... but I just couldn't resist putting this up for your consideration... Those in the 'Territories' are about to start to fight back... they have taken the disengagement and the beatings long enough...

              The following appeared in the February 15th 2006 edition of HaModia's Israel News (P.A5)


              THE POLITICAL ARENA (by David Katz)
              (In regard to the brutality at Amona,)


              “When Nobel Prize laureate Professor Yisrael Aumann, a lifelong religious Zionist, announces that the ideology of the chassidei Satmar-which negates all ties with the state and all that it represents, including its institutions- may have been right after all, this should be a red light for Israel's decision makers.
              “Even more sh! ocking was a statement made..by a representative of the national religious camp: We want civil war. From the 'salt of the earth' they have turned us into the dregs of society. They took away our homes without minimal consideration. They are competing to see who can show us greater contempt. They beat us and humiliate us. If need be, next time where will be guns on the roof, and they won't be there for decoration...; we'll use them. The way things look there is no other choice.
              “...the above statement...came from a moderate, self possessed man in his sixties who lives in the center of the country...
              “And no, he didn't say it in a moment of anger. He explained that it is the result of continuous burning rage at the grave injustices being perpetrated against one sector of the public which is no longer willing to take it.
              “ They thought that after Gush Katif we had raised a white flag and we would fold in the face of any new madness of any leader who wants to build support on our backs,” he said. “They thought that we had lost our fighting spirit The answer is No with a capital N.”..
              “On Amona, he said, “Believe me, I could understand it if those cruel pllicemen had received orders to behave like wounded animals and indiscriminately hit the bachurim in the event hat they w! ould be attacked by stones; a stone can kill. But Olmert will not agree to investigate what happened and even rejected the president's call to launch an inquiry. The truncheons and the hands that held them were the only language spoken there. Even those who had been hiding in the houses, and who did not so much as throw a pail of water, were treated to brutal beatings. So I say, if they want war, let it be war, to the death. We too can lift the banner of rebellion.”...
              It is important to remember that this is not a spokesman who wants to make political gain on the eve of the elections; nor is it bluster spoken by the head of Yesha Council at some demonstration or other.
              It is the bitter feeling of a large segmen! t of Israeli society that calls itself the moderate right.”
              ===============================
              This may well be the catalist to cause the Government to simply withdraw the IDF back behind the Wall... and leave the one-third to the only protection possible... their God! And He just might show Himself as their defence!

              Blessings:

              Comment


              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                Originally posted by ZionGene
                I guess the fact of the matter is, that all human beings, because of their fallen state, CANNOT understand God when He speaks, unless He enables them through the Holy Spirit. And that goes for Ezekiel 36 and all the rest

                One doctrine which most people find hard to accept, is the one which says that, left alone by God, we are all utterly depraved.
                What I find truly sad about this, is that it also states in prophecies about the end-times, that God will PURPOSELY allow those who choose not to believe to be deceived by the beast. He will hide the truth from them at that point. It will be over, and the time to decide will be past. So sad.

                Comment


                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Wow- the "settlers" are hated more than the palestinians now!

                  Demonizing Settlers
                  by Rabbi Shlomo Riskin
                  A settler bares his soul.


                  Why was the demolition of the nine homes in Amona accompanied by so much violence on both sides of the ideological spectrum -- whereas the destruction of the Gush Katif settlements only seven months ago took place amidst comparative understanding and sensitivity, with crying and decrying, with dancing and denying, but in largest measure devoid of the use of force?

                  Apparently the overwhelming majority of those who feel part of the settler community, while strongly disagreeing with the "disengagement" policy -- either because they are Zionistically and humanistically opposed to uprooting Jewish settlements, or because they are against giving a prize of encouragement to terror and Hamas in this critical time of Palestinian internal dissension and external aggression -- might well endorse passive resistance but would clearly stop short of violence.

                  So what happened half a year later in Amona? And I'm not merely writing about the youth who demonstrated in Amona; I'm talking about murmurings throughout the settler community which has been radicalized far beyond the red lines of Gush Katif.

                  The explanation lies between the lines of a survey conducted by Professor Dalia Mor of the College of Management in Rishon Letzion, aimed at examining the attitudes of Israelis toward the various sectors of our broader society: Ashkenazim, Sephardim, secularists, settlers, Haredim, rightists, leftists, Israeli-Arabs, new immigrants and foreign workers.

                  The survey revealed that the sector most hated by the Israeli population are the Palestinians, with the settlers a close second. And among those respondents who defined themselves as left-wingers, hostility toward the settlers ranked higher than hostility toward the Palestinians by a ration of 67 to 55 percent.

                  This study explained to me a most curious phenomenon. Israelis may have many faults -- reckless driving, inability to admit wrongdoing, lack of subtlety -- but lack of generosity to people in trouble is not one of them. Our telephones and door bells ring every ten minutes with requests for aid to needy families and institutions, Israel the fledgling State welcomed under-privileged and under-educated refugees from third world countries in comparative numbers unrivaled by any other country, and our burgeoning nation was among the first to take in the Vietnamese Boat People and to send volunteers and raise funds for Tsunami, Pakistani Earthquake and Hurricane Katrina homeless.

                  With this history, why is there no national outcry on behalf of expelled residents of Gush Katif, when most of whom are still waiting to receive their government subsidies and are living in sub-standard housing, without any means of employment? And these residents of Gush Katif did not build their settlements as thieves in the night. They were sent as the agents of every government of Israel since the Six Day War, and they turned a desert into a garden of fruits, vegetables and flowers which were exported throughout the world. Why is the government, as well as the majority of the populous so indifferent to their fate?

                  It can only be because the entire settlement community has become a demonized and delegitimized sector of Israel society.

                  And this is what explains Amona: the government (and Supreme Court) would not accept a mere seven day delay to enable the settlers themselves to dismantle their homes and restore whatever they could as they resumed their lives in Ofra, and that the policemen came out on horseback, brandishing clubs and often striking indiscriminately as the pictures seem to testify.

                  I certainly do not condone in any way the stone-throwing violence of many of the youth who were there. But the settler community had come to Amona already feeling disenfranchised and abandoned, and unfortunately those who feel pushed against the wall of hatred and indifference often act with violence because they sense they have nothing to lose. And tragically the over-reaction of the police only exacerbated the settler perception that we are enemy number one, even before Hamas.

                  What is the source of our repugnant status? Some will refer to us as leeches who have sucked the Israeli treasury dry-and caused undeserved stagnation to the Negev and the Galil -- by our demands to fund our ill-advised settlements; others will even charge us with immorality, since we have robbed the Palestinians of lands which rightfully belong to them. There are voices like Avrum Burg, who have internalized the cruel canard our enemies have cynically flung at us, holding us responsible for the "freedom fighting" suicide bombers who murder the innocent citizens of Netanya, Tel Aviv, Hadera and Petach Tikva.

                  These voices have forgotten the Treaty of Versailles and the Balfour Declaration, which initially called for 18 Arab States and one Jewish State on both sides of the Jordan; they portray us as white European Boers conquering and colonizing the "South African" homelands of the native Palestinians, paying no mind that it is us Jews who have lived in this area for 4,000 years in unbroken continuity and that we comprised the majority of those who lived on and worked these lands in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

                  In their blind idealization of the possibilities for peace with the Palestinians, they choose to overlook the facts that from the UN Partition Plan on November 29, 1947, to the tense period preceding the Six Day War to the Oslo Agreements to the Camp David Summit meeting between former President Clinton, Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat, it is we the Israelis who have consistently been willing to compromise and it has been the Arabs who have refused offer after offer to share this land. Yes, you can only make peace with your enemy-but that enemy must be willing to make peace with you.

                  Nevertheless, the majority of the Israeli populous seems to have "bought into" the "immorality" of our position and thereby condone any ill-treatment we may receive as being well deserved.

                  We are proud of our settlements, proud of the unique and close relationship some of us have succeeded in establishing with our Palestinian neighbors, proud of our educational network, proud of the idealism and patriotism of our youth -- who still find their way into the most elite and dangerous units of the IDF.

                  But we are hurt and dismayed by the hatred which is being leveled against us. Yes, the Settler community speaks with different voices, and from varying degrees of a wide right-wing perspective, but the overwhelming majority of us are rational, committed, patriotic and idealistic citizens: Do we not deserve to be embraced and co-opted in a consensus government (even if that government rejects Greater Israel as a viable option) rather than to be cast aside and delegitimized as criminals?

                  Most of us would welcome a plan which would enable us to live in peace with peaceful neighbors -- but instead we are being told that many of our legal settlements (beyond the "fence") will have to be dismantled even as Hamastan is gaining unprecedented (since Hitler) political support and renewed terrorism is rearing its ugly head. The governmental policy that unilateral separation will enhance our ability to defend ourselves has yet to be proven, the governmental promise that once we retreat from settlements it will be easier to extirpate the enemy, has yet to begin to be implemented, but the destruction of our homes and uprooting of our settlers is taking place with great dispatch and within an atmosphere of zeal and political victory which only strengthens our feelings that we, the settlers, have become the major enemy of Israel.

                  Does the government not realize that the insensitivity and hatred we feel emanating from its policies only serves to energize the extremist elements of our population -- and threatens to rob our state of the most committed and idealistic of our youth (God forbid)?

                  And now for my deepest fear. If the Israeli population hates us, the settler, then they must also hate themselves. After all, modern Israel was founded by settlers who settled on the swamp areas of Tel Aviv, Petah Tikva, Huleh Valley and Kinneret which were claimed by the Palestinians. Indeed, the Palestinian press refers to Efrat as a settlement, but to Haifa, west Jerusalem, Netanya and Tel Aviv as illegal settlements. If our government continues to de-legitimize the settler community and to deliver us a knock-out punch, I fear that we will eventually be evacuating Tekoa, Efrat and then Jerusalem -- but from the PA-Hamas perspective, it will be Tel Aviv first.

                  The opinions expressed here are those of the author.

                  This article originally appeared in the Jerusalem Post

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    also this in from Arutz Sheva_ why not just hand out yellow patches?


                    Gush Etzion Residents to Protest 'Border-Crossing'
                    13:07 Feb 21, '06 / 23 Shevat 5766
                    By Ezra HaLevi



                    Activist committees in Kiryat Arba and Gush Etzion are preparing to protest new measures they say are being taken in order to cut off Gush Etzion and the Hevron region from Israel.



                    Specifically, the residents are against the new stickers the army is planning to distribute to residents to enable passage through the large border-crossing type checkpoint being constructed at the entrance to Gush Etzion from Jerusalem.

                    Kiryat Arba's local council met on February 12th and concluded unanimously that it is "opposed to the army's objective of differentiating and separating the residents of Yesha (acronym for Judea, Samaria and Gaza) communities from other citizens of the State of Israel, and has therefore decided not to distribute the stickers to drivers living in Kiryat Arba. In addition, it will join with the other local councils in Yesha to frustrate this objective."

                    A protest will take place this Friday, against the border crossing being built next to the Gush Etzion tunnels. A convoy of vehicles will leave Kiryat Arba at 9:00 AM and be joined by residents of Gush Etzion communities who will wait in their cars along Highway 60 starting at 9:30 – all heading to the new border crossing together.

                    The council says it opposes the stickers for the following reasons:

                    • The combined strangulation of the Partition Fence and the fences around Jewish communities in the region, compounded by bypass roads and the marking of residents vehicles creates an atmosphere of being "aliens within our own country."

                    • The stickers represent a paradigm created by the government whereby Jews are foreigners and Arabs are seen as the indigenous population. "The Arabs are seen as natives in the land while we are seen as living here because of the mistakes of various government administrations."

                    • "By affixing these stickers to our windshields, we will be signaling our de facto consent to the partition of Israel" and the creation of border crossings along our drive home. "The destruction of Gush Katif started with the establishment of the Kisufim crossing."

                    • "While resident vehicles would pass swiftly through the checkpoints, the thousands of daily guest, commercial, and service vehicles would be forced to wait in long lines for individual inspection. It wouldn't take long until non-residents would simply stop coming. Furthermore, Arabs will quickly learn to forge the stickers, thereby worsening, rather than improving, our security."

                    Other residents, on local email lists, have asked, "Why do we have to fight every single thing the government decides to do," pointing out that stickers with the name of specific communities are already used to facilitate easier identification of residents at the entrance to their towns.

                    Some residents responded sharply, saying the Partition Wall was the construction of a new "ghetto" and the stickers were merely the modern-day version of yellow stars, to be displayed by Jews living there.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      The governmental policy that unilateral separation will enhance our ability to defend ourselves has yet to be proven, the governmental promise that once we retreat from settlements it will be easier to extirpate the enemy, has yet to begin to be implemented,
                      I have wondered all along if this wasn't the ultimate plan. Give the terrorists a piece of their own land so they can set up a "headquarters". Then when they attack Israel now the IDF/IAF has a legitimate "nation" to attack/destroy.

                      Ultimately we all know how this will end. History will be repeated in that all nations will hate Israel and many believe Zechariah's prophecy about 2/3 being killed is yet in our future. If this is true then we KNOW what's going to happen here. MANY tyrants have tried to wipe out the name of Israel - most have succeeded in killing scores of Israeli's but none have, nor will they ever, totally obliderate this nation/people. It can't happen. It sure is comforting to know that...

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        I read in the news today, that Iran and Russia are working together to keep the WMD production alive.
                        http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/02/26/iranupd.shtml

                        This slick plan could divert public attention from Iran by pretending that the Iran is not really doing it themselves.

                        Iran has stated what their goals are:
                        1. Destroy America
                        2. Remove Israel


                        If you were Mr. Badguy would you want to take on America without having some serious firepower?
                        Would Mahmoud expect to wipe out Israel if America were in power?

                        So what's different?
                        In the past Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. have all wanted to take out Israel. They tried. They failed. My guess is that they did not give credit to God for sparing Israel but instead blamed it on circumstances, commanders, lack of armament, lack of military financing, lack of technology, etc. Now we see a nation, Ahmadinejadstan (Iran), who is different. If you believe the previous reasons were the cause of the failure, you would now think you could suceed. Why? With the mega ordinance Mahmoud is seeking, the upper hand would belong to Iran. What I see is another country which thinks they will when if they start a war. The leadership in Iran believes that they can actually remove Israel and is intending to do so.

                        Comment


                        • Russia and Turkey to Hold Joint Naval Exercises

                          Russia and Turkey to Hold Joint Naval Exercises

                          Russian and Turkish naval ships will engage in joint military exercises held in the Black Sea, Itar-Tass reported.

                          The missile cruiser Moskva, a landing ship and a support ship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet left the Turkish port of Istanbul for the maneuvers after concluding their visit on Monday. Two frigates and two missile motor boats from Turkey will take part in the exercise.

                          During the two-day maneuvers, Russian and Turkish naval ships will drill communication tasks, joint maneuvering and a training episode of encounter battle, navy official Igor Dygalo said.

                          http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/02/...exercise.shtml

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            Lay it to Heart,

                            Iran has stated what their goals are:

                            1. Destroy America
                            2. Remove Israel


                            If you were Mr. Badguy would you want to take on America without having some serious firepower? Would Mahmoud expect to wipe out Israel if America were in power?
                            So, if I'm understanding this correctly, in order to achieve their second goal, America must be destroyed first, right? That might mean physically, militarily or economically or a combination?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              Originally posted by Sonrise
                              Lay it to Heart,

                              So, if I'm understanding this correctly, in order to achieve their second goal, America must be destroyed first, right? That might mean physically, militarily or economically or a combination?
                              Or, as many older scholars suggest, the rapture devistates the US.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                Originally posted by Lay it to Heart
                                I read in the news today, that Iran and Russia are working together to keep the WMD production alive.
                                With the mega ordinance Mahmoud is seeking, the upper hand would belong to Iran. What I see is another country which thinks they will when if they start a war. The leadership in Iran believes that they can actually remove Israel and is intending to do so.
                                What comes to mind is that Israel is being seen as weak in the giving away of the land. Terroism is being seen to triumph over peace and good sense. Israel is not seen to be giving away land for peace, but the islamics are seen to be winning a war through terror. The clock is ticking and we Christians sense the coming of the Lord but so do thOse crazy islamics who lie and believe their father the murderer and father of lies.

                                Comment

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