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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Heat on Abbas is building. If Hamas forms part of the government perhaps Israel will simply move ahead "unilaterally" as we suspected it might, to abandon the west bank. See article from ArutzSheva below:

    Defense/Middle East

    Abu Mazen is Shaky, as is His Hold on Gaza
    13:39 Jan 18, '06 / 18 Tevet 5766
    By Hillel Fendel



    Intelligence information in Israeli hands shows that Abu Mazen is depressed and lacking in self-confidence, and that no one can control the anarchy in the Palestinian Authority.


    Maariv newspaper reports today, and Arutz-7's Haggai Huberman reported on January 4, that the PA Chairman, whose real name is Mahmoud Abbas, appears to be in a difficult emotional state.

    European and American representatives who recently met with Abbas confirm the reports.

    The current diagnosis is that Abbas has lost control, as well as the confidence of those close to him, cancels meetings, and falls into depression from time to time. The Palestinian Authority, at least in Gaza, is close to total governmental collapse, the reports say.

    The reports are that Abu Mazen has told closed forums that he is unable to control the situation "on the ground," and that he regrets not being able to carry out his promises and his plans.

    Israeli diplomatic and military sources say that in light of this news, Israel must prepare for a situation in which there is no one with whom to negotiate - leading Israel to resort to further unilateral gestures, in coordination with the U.S. and the international community.

    Many officials in the Kadima Party, from party leader Ehud Olmert on down, have said that Israel will consider further unilateral withdrawals, giving away almost all of Judea and Samaria within a number of years.

    Abu Mazen has already said that he will not seek another term as PA Chairman, a position to which he was elected only last year.

    He is not the only one in the PA who feels that his political days might be numbered. Many members of Fatah, the organization he heads and which formed the backbone of the original PLO, reportedly no longer see Abu Mazen as their leader. Abu Mazen and Gaza strongman Muhammed Dahlan are barely on speaking terms, and Fatah fears that the coming elections will lead to a Hamas victory. Fatah is particularly upset at Abu Mazen's consent, in concert with the U.S., not to postpone the elections.

    Huberman reports that though it was earlier felt that Abu Mazen might wait until a few days before the elections to cancel them - in order to head off Hamas terror attacks that would follow the cancellation - "he has now lost all his possible excuses for calling off the elections. The main excuse, Israel's decision to ban elections in Jerusalem, has become void, since Israel has decided to allow the elections - and they will be held with Hamas participation, no matter what Israel says."

    The Palestinian Authority, the largest employer in the PA-controlled areas, is close to bankrupcy, Haaretz newspaper recently reported, and might not be able to pay even the February salaries of its more than 130,000 employees.

    Abu Mazen failed to attain significant financial aid from Saudi Arabia, despite his recent trip there, and the aid from Egypt is also in danger.

    U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice warned the PA yesterday that if Hamas is included in the new PA government, it could affect US-backed efforts to establish an independent Palestinian state. She did not threaten specific measures, however, such as cutting off financial aid to the PA. Privately, Rice has said that though a Hamas victory would mean trouble for Israel, it would be even more troubling for the U.S., which has strongly backed Abu Mazen in its Road Map efforts. Hamas is dead-set against the Road Map plan or any recognition of Israel.

    The fall of the Palestinian Authority to a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organization such as Hamas would be a major challenge to U.S. President Bush's foreign policy.
    However, Hamas is currently not expected to win a majority, but rather only some 30%, Huberman says. This will mean a major dilemma for Israel, he adds:
    "Hamas will have to be part of the coalition government with Abu Mazen, and then Israel will have to decide whether to have contacts with such a government or not. The Europeans have already proposed that Israel agree to talk with a Fatah-Hamas government, as long as Hamas representatives are not directly involved..."

    Comment


    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Time for a few more articles about the West Bank evacuations. Here is good one...read to the bottom:

      FROM WND'S JERUSALEM BUREAU
      Will Jews take cash
      to leave West Bank?
      Relocation bill stirs talk of withdrawal from area

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Posted: January 24, 2006
      1:00 a.m. Eastern



      By Aaron Klein

      http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=48468

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
      JERUSALEM – A dovish Israeli lawmaker has proposed a multibillion-dollar bill to pay Jewish residents of the West Bank to relocate from their communities to an area outside the territory, fuelling speculation here Israel may be planning a large-scale withdrawal from the West Bank.

      "I see Israel giving up the vast majority of the West Bank, either in a peace deal or perhaps unilaterally. My bill is meant to give hope and a sense of security to the settlers who will have to get out of the territory or may even be forced out," Knesset Member Avshalom Vilan of the extreme leftist Meretz-Yahad party told WorldNetDaily.


      Vilan was referring to his evacuation campaign, termed One Home, which seeks $2-$3 billion in state aid to pay upwards of 80,000 West Bank Jewish residents in 68 communities to leave their homes located outside Israel's security fence.

      About 200,000 Jews live in the West Bank. The security fence, still under construction in certain areas, cordons off nearly 95 percent of the territory from Israel's pre-1967 borders. More than half the West Bank's Jewish residents reside on the side of the fence closest to Israel. The Israeli government claims the fence is being constructed only to keep terrorists out of the Jewish state and is not meant to establish future Israeli borders, but critics from all sides of the political spectrum contend the barrier is being built to precipitate an eventual Israeli withdrawal.

      Vilan says One Home is focused on compensation for only those residents caught outside the security fence. He submitted a bill to the Knesset requesting aid for their mass relocation and says he has garnered support from many Israeli lawmakers. A Knesset session to discuss the bill will be scheduled after March parliamentary elections, Vilan says.

      Many West Bank Jewish residents and nationalist leaders fear Vilan's Knesset bill foreshadows an Israeli evacuation of the territory.

      "The bill itself it rubbish. It is meant to foster dialogue in the Knesset and the country about an Israeli withdrawal. It's all rhetoric to help create the atmosphere for a withdrawal," charged Knesset Member Effie Eitam of Israel's National Union.

      Moshe Jacobs, a West Bank doctor, agreed: "Just the talk about compensation already makes it clear Israel is contemplating withdrawing from here. I don't believe it will be evacuating only those Jews outside the fence, but also inside. Israel will give it all up."

      Yishai Fleisher, director of Kumah, an organization that promotes Israeli immigration from abroad and a resident of the West Bank town of Beit El, which falls outside the security fence, called the One Home project "a total joke. Israel still hasn't fully compensated the 8,000 Jews who were expelled from Gush Katif (the former Jewish communities of Gaza). Many of those expelled are now living in disparate conditions and are in tremendous need of funds. How can the government possibly handle compensating 80,000 Jews?'"

      To many, Vilan's relocation bill isn't the only indication Israel may be contemplating a West Bank withdrawal.

      Last week, Interim Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announced select West Bank areas now face imminent evacuation, including nine homes in the Binyamin community of Amona, a home in the large Gush Etzion block, three hilltop outposts in northern Samaria, and a Jewish-owned marketplace in Hebron, the oldest Jewish community in the world.

      Also, as WND reported, the Israeli army is now debating a proposal that calls for the closing off the main Jewish highway in the West Bank to Jewish traffic, rerouting the major commuter artery for most of the area's Jewish towns to a series of roads that run dozens of miles away from West Bank Jewish communities. The highway was constructed in the early 1990s to ease traffic for Arab and Jewish commuters, and to make it safer for Jews to travel throughout the West Bank by bypassing major Arab cities from which snipers had fired on Jewish vehicles.

      Regarding the highway closure, Sara Frankel, a resident of the West Bank town of Eli, told WND, "Before Israel evacuated Gaza, it took steps just like this to make life harder and conditions unsafe for the Gaza Jews by closing roads and taking away protection. If they close the highway it would be a clear step in the direction of a future forced evacuation."

      Indeed, just prior to the Gaza withdrawal, the Israeli army rerouted Jewish traffic, closed several roads and began removing army outposts from Jewish communities.

      Several years before the withdrawal, residents of an entire Gaza Jewish community, Nitzarim, were banned from driving their vehicles on the only access road that led to their town. Instead, Nitzarim residents had to take hourly shuttles into their community provided by the IDF.

      Last month, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced he is leaving the ruling Likud Party he helped found to start his own "centrist" party, Kadima, prompting new elections that will be held in March. The new party was widely regarded as a bid to carry out further Israeli withdrawals after Sharon drew the ire of senior Likud figures for his decision to evacuate Jews from Gaza.

      Multiple Kadima members have stated the new party is looking to change Israel's borders. Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who is filling in for Sharon as head-of-state following the Israeli leader's massive stroke three weeks ago, has expressed approval of West Bank withdrawals and has made statements to reporters about the possibility of vacating some parts of Jerusalem.

      Olmert, currently leading in a series of national polls for the figure most likely to win in the upcoming elections, was the first Sharon deputy to go public with the Gaza-withdrawal plan.

      Vilan told WND he believes Olmert "understands he has to give back most of West Bank. The only question is whether he can do it in a peace deal or he will have to vacate the West Bank unilaterally."

      International law considers the West Bank landlocked territory not officially recognized as part of any country. Israel calls the land "disputed." The United Nations claims the West Bank is "occupied" by Israel, which maintains overall control of most of the area while the Palestinian Authority has jurisdiction in about 40 percent. The Palestinians claim a population of roughly 2.4 million, but new demographic studies show the numbers are likely inflated. The actual Palestinian population in the area could be up to 1 million less. The territory remained under Jordanian rule from 1948 until Israel captured the West Bank in 1967 after Jordan's King Hussein ignored Israeli pleas for his country to stay out of the Six Day War. Most countries rejected Jordan's initial claim on the area, which it formally renounced in 1988.


      The West Bank borders most of Israel's major cities, including Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Military strategists have long estimated Israel must maintain the West Bank to defend its borders from any ground invasion.

      A West Bank withdrawal will place most of Israel's major cities within firing range of Palestinian rockets.

      Many villages in the West Bank, which Israelis commonly refer to as the "biblical heartland," are mentioned throughout the Old Testament.

      The Book of Genesis says Abraham entered Israel at Shechem (Nablus) and received God's promise of land for his offspring. He was later buried in Hebron.

      The nearby town of Beit El, meaning "house of God," is where Scripture says the patriarch Jacob slept on a stone pillow and dreamed of angels ascending and descending a stairway to heaven. In that dream, God spoke directly to Jacob and reaffirmed the promise of territory.

      And in Exodus, the holy tabernacle rested in Shilo, believed to be the first area the ancient Israelites settled after fleeing Egypt



      AND ANOTHER:

      Peretz: We'll pay settlers who leave

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...205314,00.html

      Labor party leader presents 'moral road map,' says he will favor unilateral withdrawals should peace talks with Palestinians fail, offer fair compensation to any settler who wishes to leave West Bank
      Ronny Sofer



      Labor won't hesitate to evacuate more settlements: The Labor party will favor unilateral withdrawals should negotiations with the Palestinians fail, and offer compensation to settlers willing to voluntarily leave the West Bank, Chairman Amir Peretz said during his speech at the Herzliya Conference Monday evening.

      continued at url posted above.
      Last edited by HSB; 01-24-2006, 10:33 AM.

      Comment


      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        fair compensation to any settler who wishes to leave West Bank
        I wonder what the going "fair compensation" is when they pressure the people to leave their homes! It's not like they have a choice!
        Sad. All we can do is watch and pray.

        Comment


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          Posting the following since it dovetails with the issue of world pressure on ISRAEL to get rid of its nukes, so as to keep Iran on side. In the next few months there will be a regime change (coup?) in Iran that will offer to abandon nuclear weapons IF ISRAEL DOES THE SAME! Oh and they will decide not to go ahead with the oil exchange in Euros to boot. Look for the world to shift the big weight from Iran to Israel. I still happen to think Iran will be on "our side" when the peacekeepers get deployed in the Mountains of Israel to serve as mid wives to the new Hamastan terror state in the West Bank. HSB

          BRITISH OFFICIAL SAYS ISRAEL WILL HAVE TO FOREGO NUKES
          Walker's World: The price for stopping Iran nukes
          By Martin Walker
          UPI Editor
          Published January 23, 2006

          HERZLIYA, Israel -- A rumble of alarm went through the hall when Israel's annual Herzliya security conference was told Sunday that any diplomatic settlement to halt Iran's nuclear development plans would probably have to include an Israeli commitment to a nuclear-free Middle East.

          Sir Michael Quinlan, the former top official at Britain's Ministry of Defense, was spelling out the terms and procedures that would almost certainly be required -- short of military action -- to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power. And as he went through the list, which included the kinds of economic damage the world might have to face if economic sanctions were to be credible, a gloom settled over the conference.

          China, Russia and India would probably have to be persuaded to risk significant financial loss, he began.

          Then the United States, NATO and Israel would probably be required to give security guarantees to Iran that there would be no attempt at regime change, along with pledges of no support for any Iranian opposition group that was not prepared to work through democratic and peaceful means.

          There would probably have to be further security guarantees to Iran's neighbors and other Middle Eastern powers, if a grand bargain to keep Iran nuclear-free were to work. And then there would also be the very big but unavoidable question of Israel's own nuclear capability.

          Israel has long cultivated a policy of deliberate ambiguity on its nuclear status, pledging only that it would never "be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East." But it is an open secret that Israel possesses an arsenal of well over a hundred nuclear weapons that can be delivered by the flexible and highly survivable triad of Jericho missiles, strike aircraft, and cruise missiles fired from Israel's Dolphin class submarines.

          It is hard to conceive of any circumstances in which Israel would surrender its nuclear capability, its ultimate deterrent against a sea of potentially hostile neighbors, many of whom -- like the new Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- openly call for Israel's obliteration from the map.

          Even to discuss the matter would require the most cast-iron international guarantees of Israel's borders and its security, along with the clearest and most open commitment from the United States. And given Israel's history, such as the way the Lyndon Johnson Administration in the weeks before the 1967 Arab-Israeli war ducked its promise to keep open the Gulf of Aqaba, any such American promises would be viewed with great and understandable skepticism.

          But in his precise and methodical way, Quinlan explained just how difficult a negotiated international solution to the Iran crisis would be. And he went on to question whether the United States would be able to assemble against Iran the kind of international diplomatic and military coalition it crafted for the 1991 Gulf War against Iraq. But without such a threat of international solidarity against it, backed up by a United Nations mandate, diplomacy would not be credible and Iran would not be easy to convince.

          "Efficacy and legitimacy are inseparable," Quinlan stressed.

          This was not what the Israeli policy-makers and officials and members of the Knesset (Israel's parliament) in the audience wanted to hear.

          "The time for talking is over," said Ephraim Sneh, who chairs the Knesset's committee on strategic doctrine. "We should start focused and effective sanctions, beginning with refined oil products. Iran is dependent on imports for 40 percent of its gasoline."

          "The only way that the United States and Europe will act against Iran is if they know, if they are absolutely convinced, that Israel itself will act -- even if it means a full-scale war in the Middle East," said Arieh Eldad, another member of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense committee.

          Israelis, already deeply alarmed by the prospect of the terrorist-backing Hamas being elected into power in this week's Palestinian elections, can hardly bring themselves to believe that the rest of the world might not see Iran as quite the evident nuclear menace that Israel perceives. For Israel, so small a state that one nuclear weapon could spell annihilation, the threats of Iran's new President to "wipe Israel off the map" are a clear, imminent and mortal threat to its existence.

          Indeed, Quinlan went on, the rest of the world might agree that a nuclear-armed Iran was unacceptable. But the word "unacceptable" had two meanings in international life. There was Saddam Hussein's 1991 invasion of Kuwait, which was "unacceptable" and it was reversed. But there was also the "unacceptable" way the Soviet Union had imposed its sway over Eastern Europe after 1945, and however appalling, that had to be accepted.

          "I regretfully believe that ultimately Iran's nuclear weapon would be 'unacceptable' in the second sense," Quinlan said quietly, and a dreadful hush fell over the Herzliya conference room, a place that all present knew would be within the destruction zone of a nuclear weapon exploded over Tel Aviv.
          Last edited by HSB; 01-26-2006, 01:03 PM.

          Comment


          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            I think that with Hamas winning a landslide victory today, there might be some unpleasant times ahead if they gear up their military wings to ramp up the situation with Israel.

            Any thoughts??

            Snoopy

            Comment


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              It's a good thing we know the end of the story on this. Humanly speaking Israel is DOOMED. Giving up land right and left and being pressured into giving up the one and only thing (humanly speaking, again) that is stopping the enemies from completely wiping them off the map - exactly what their goal is. It is fascinating to me, to see the power of Satan in the minds of world leaders. The logic is non-existant. NO one else would even consider such foolishness. Why is Israel and the world community? Because their minds are being played with like a child plays with an ant - all by the great blinder of eyes himself. Satan the deceiver.

              Comment


              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                Originally posted by Snoopy
                I think that with Hamas winning a landslide victory today, there might be some unpleasant times ahead if they gear up their military wings to ramp up the situation with Israel.

                Any thoughts??

                Snoopy
                No question that they will gear up. In fact Israel is giving them land on which to do that. They already have Gaza where they can build a military (more like a band of organized thugs waiting to carry out terror attacks) w/o anyone caring or watching.

                Comment


                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Andy: you are SO right brother about Israel!! It strikes me as utterly bizarre some of the pressures on Israel to accomodate terrorists who blow up coffee shops and wedding receptions. Unbelievable!! Fortunately I peeked at the end of the Book and know how it is all going to turn out. Would it spoil the story to say that Israel survives and embraces the real Messiah who returns to Earth and sets up a kingdom of righteousness and peace? It will not be wiped out. In fact ANYBODY or ANYTHING that comes against Israel is due to fail.

                  I am planning to visit Israel again with a group (which includes Don the wee Baptist) in May of this year. We have plans to tour around the whole country including the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and visit many of the settlements. I know we are running out of time. Soon this area will be"off limits" to non-residents, and then the bulldozers will show up..... pray for us and the peace of Jerusalem!

                  Snoopy- at least we all know where the Palestinian sentiments lie..with the terrorists as opposed to the merely thieves and fraud artists in Fatah. Actually I think all of this will simply speed up the process of israel divesting itself of the West Bank in a one sided solution. Retreat behind a wall and close the gates. Unfortunately something like 80,000 settlers will be on the wrong side of the wall....

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    It's interesting that the more Israel talks about giving away its land, the more its enemies are trying to take it by force. Hamas doesn't want to be given the land, they want the victory of taking it forcefully. A regime change may be possible in Iran but it doesn't seem likely. To invade, or peacekeep if you will Israel, Iran may be willing to follow along with others it really doesn't care for. That's not to say that they won't double cross the leader. Significant events can change the thinking of all of the leaders. For example, if the temple mount wall collapses, retaliating terrorists send chemical WMD's to Tel Aviv overshooting it killing most of the Gazans and Isreal responds taking out Damascus, yeah, I can certainly see all the nations rushing to come into Israel to keep the peace.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      Originally posted by HSB

                      I am planning to visit Israel again with a group (which includes Don the wee Baptist) in May of this year. We have plans to tour around the whole country including the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and visit many of the settlements. I know we are running out of time. Soon this area will be"off limits" to non-residents, and then the bulldozers will show up..... pray for us and the peace of Jerusalem!
                      Andy: GREEN with envy! (Not really but I have this feeling the first time I get to see Jerusalem will be with the Lord in all His glory!)

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        Originally posted by Lay it to Heart
                        It's interesting that the more Israel talks about giving away its land, the more its enemies are trying to take it by force. Hamas doesn't want to be given the land, they want the victory of taking it forcefully. A regime change may be possible in Iran but it doesn't seem likely. To invade, or peacekeep if you will Israel, Iran may be willing to follow along with others it really doesn't care for. That's not to say that they won't double cross the leader. Significant events can change the thinking of all of the leaders. For example, if the temple mount wall collapses, retaliating terrorists send chemical WMD's to Tel Aviv overshooting it killing most of the Gazans and Isreal responds taking out Damascus, yeah, I can certainly see all the nations rushing to come into Israel to keep the peace.
                        It's the same thing, isn't it? They carry out their acts of murder and eventually Israel "gives" them the land. That's certainly what the thugs claim - victory by attacking the civilians. Let's face it - Israel and the US is proving that terrorism is a successful way to defeat an enemy. Kill enough innocent civlians and the government gives in to your demands.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          bump!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            I was listening to the Calvary Chapel call-in answer radio show (Pastor's Perspective), recently and they had Bill Gallatin (Calvary of New York) on. He just got back from Israel and had some interesting perspectives. He felt the Israelies seemed more concerned about Iran than Hamas. They toured the Dead Sea and the IDF was practicing bombing runs, along-side of it for a possible attack on Iran.

                            The other host was talking about a recent article in Newsweek, which was about Russia and Iran. One of those interviewed (not a religious person) commented that it seemed that Russia was being "hooked" into siding with Iran.

                            Has anyone seen this article. It would be nice to confirm that secular people are unknowingly quoting scripture!!!!

                            John H.
                            http://members.tripod.com/vaulterjohn/matthew24.htm

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              I hope people have been tracking the developments in Amona in Israel. Check out :http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=97879 or http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=97799

                              Clearly the government is showing excessive force and resolve. Look for this to harden even further in the months ahead. In terms of public perceptions there will be a real effort to make the settlers to look like "thugs" and "jerks" to distance them from the rest of the nation. Thank goodness for folks like Arutz Sheva showing the settler perspective.

                              In my opinion we are getting close to the abandonment of the entire West bank, save for a few major settlements. All of this will be needed to allow a still born Palestinian state to come about. Europe and America expect no less, to keep the moderate arabs across the ME on side. As the French say "meme chose"!

                              PS to John. Looks like there is so much "hooking" going on that there will be a lot of spare crochet products to go around! The whole world will be "hooked" into Israel at some point in the divine plan.
                              Last edited by HSB; 02-03-2006, 07:43 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                Hal - I saw that as well.. the pictures are really quite telling

                                You can watch the video here, or look at the stills:

                                http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/

                                ..and very interesting post John. Thanks for the update. Quite an interesting choice of words, I would say...
                                Last edited by Neggy; 02-03-2006, 12:10 PM.

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