Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Wow... I think it was PlumBob who said in an earlier comment... how quickly things change in this World we all presently inhabit... Overnight the great pressure tactics of the USA have quite literally reversed polarity and now it is Mahmoud Abbas who is feeling the squeeze!

I’m not sure if this is a change on George’s part or not. It surly does put tremendous pressure on Abbas, while taking a whole lot of pressure off of Sharon… however; if George has any aspirations of going down in History as the man who brought peace to the Middle East, can he do anything other than put pressure on Abbas at this time? The Palestinians at some time have to at least look like they can become a State… SOOooo… until they can demonstrate something that looks like peace in Gaza, how can the UN / USA press Israel for more concessions for Land?

Ah! Now comes the rub… I agree with HSB here, Israel may now having gotten the mechanisms moving commencing with Gaza, and continuing into the West Bank, may have to let the process run its course… and pull all of its forces [IDF] back behind the Wall, leaving the Orthodox Jews in un-walled villages on their own. It has always bothered me how the expression in Ezekiel referencing the un-walled cities could apply to this current process now unfolding before our collective eyes… HSB… I think your insight here is brilliant! And I would even venture that He may very well have revealed this possibility to you… insight is one way of explaining how He makes His revelations known to His Children.

What chaos would ensue, with armed bands of thugs and terrorists wrecking havoc on one and all throughout these “Mountains of Israel”! The approximate one-third of Israeli’s living in Israel [Orthodox] live on the wrong side of the Wall! The whole situation is in reverse to Ancient Israel who occupied the Mountains while the Philistines occupied the low-Land. Will God, who is calling His People back to His Mountains allow such a travesty to unfold? Will the “Mountains of Israel” become the ‘Mountains of Palestine’? I think not!

Jeremiah is addressing Jews ‘today’ who have been called back from ‘All the Nations to which you were dispersed’! It is here in this Land [the Land of their Fore-Fathers] Old Israel [The Israel of their first King (Saul) - in fact the West Bank] that he is talking about.

If this continues to unfold, and Sharron does draw his forces back behind the Wall, leaving the Orthodx Jew on his own… we may very well see God take up the responsibility for their protection as they have been obedient to His invitation to come home to the Land! Keep your eyes open, and Ezekiel right beside you, we are about to see Time take a very big step towards the “End-of-Days”!

Shalom…

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Some time ago we were discussing the likelyhood of OIL being found in Israel... well folks... Read this!
======================================
Survey reveals possible large oil find in Jordan

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, October 21, 2005
AMMAN — An area of eastern Jordan could have reserves of up to 30 million barrels of oil.

Sonoran Energy has completed a comprehensive technical study of Jordan's Azraq block and determined that it could contain reserves of up to 30 million barrels of oil. Executives said the Azraq block, an area of 11,250 square kilometers, could comprise the largest oil find in the Hashemite kingdom.
Sonoran Energy president Peter Rosenthal, whose company has a 60 percent production share in Azraq, said other areas of Jordan could also contain significant oil reserves, Middle East Newsline reported. He said the company plans to assume operations of oil fields and enhance production.

"Not only do we believe the Azraq block contains oil reserves upwards of 30 million barrels, we believe there is an opportunity for the discovery of new structures that could add significantly to the resource potential," Rosenthal said.
=================================
There is an ever-growing demand for this liquid gold, and the Middle East is swiming in it! Perhaps the hook-in-the-jaw is made of OIL?

Blessings:

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Don,

Zion Oil is presently trying to decide what to do w/ their first well in Israel, Ma'anit #1. http://www.zionoil.com It was a great deal more difficult and expensive than they had planned, and they've encountered other problems. I anticipate them abandoning it in the near future. But they have EXTENSIVE lease holdings, and will most likely go to another site if they have the funding.

I notice that they have posted a link to a rather large article concerning the Biblical basis for presuming there is oil under Israel. I haven't read it yet, so I don't know where it goes. http://www.zionoil.com/BiblicalTreasureHunt-Oct20.pdf

Read at your own risk, your mileage may vary

[Snoopy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I think that by the time that we the average Joe hears about something in the press or the Controlled media of your choosing (CNN FOXNEWS) the governments of the affected areas have already made there decisions and aligned there ducks in a row so to speak.
I think that in regards to why good ole George has done an about face in regards to Israel, is due partially in fact to the discovery of massive amounts of oil in the region. How can you negotiate for the best trade relations if you are aligning yourself with the enemy of Israel. I think Bush has got himself caught in the middle and will need his best spin doctors to help him out of yet another seemingly unavoidable disaster. How can the arrogance and incompetence of one man be so blatantly covered up and sold to the world, and worse yet, the world buy the lies. If I wasn't so cynical, I might just be paranoid.

Snoopy

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Snoopy… you are going to have to stop being so shy, reserved, and reticent. You really need to just come right out and express your thoughts in a forthright manner! Hay! I like the way you cut right to the quick of the issue. Right now you are throwing ‘Strikes’! To coin a phrase that might be current for the next week or so.

PlumBob… nice to hear from you and I will follow your post, but I cannot promise to do it right away. What were your thoughts about HBS’s comments about “Un-walled Villages”?

Blessings to all...

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

You know what would be a real kicker? --- If they find huge oil strikes in the land they just gave over to the loonies-PA, ie Gaza strip.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob… nice to hear from you and I will follow your post, but I cannot promise to do it right away. What were your thoughts about HBS’s comments about “Un-walled Villages”? ...

I may try to read some of the oil article later tonite. We'll see.

Well, I think HSB's thought is a very interesting concept. I guess intuitively I could make the jump from being outside the wall to living in an "unwalled village" etc, fairly easily. I will have to go back and look at the specific scriptures again. ". . . but I cannot promise to do it right away" I would like very much to see what the original texts say, and then to see if whatever is there could be taken to be something close to "without protection." Seems to me that the verses speak to living in unwalled villages, in peace (presumed peace, of course) and safety. Again, I'll have to go look. It may take another trip to the local Christian bookstore, to flip through 23 versions of the verse, huh?

Wendyj, if memory serves me correctly, there are already gas wells that are currently producing, offshore. But I believe they are farther up the coast, toward Tel Aviv. I also had mused about them giving up productive land. HSB told us at one point that the location of the present drilling by Zion Oil is NOT in west bank land to be hand over. Interesting. But what if, indeed? Now wouldn't THAT start a spat!

ANDY - this whole board isn't going to crash and die when we get to P1K is it? (post 1,000) LOL

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob... I'm going to do something for you that will make you forever in my debt... but because I'm your Christian Brother, I'm going to cancel that debt. Here is what I am going to do...

If you go to... http://www.e-sword.net/ and download EVERYTHING in English, you will have about 32 Translations of the Bible, about 11 Commentaries (really great ones like Matthew Henry, Gill, Barnes etc.), all kinds of Maps, Graphics Charts... More than you are ever going to absorb in a lifetime... It's yours FREE for the Downloading... now you won't have to run off to the Library or the local Christian Book Store.

Blessings on anyone else who wants go do the same thing!!!

Love ya...

[JudyAnn]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Great site, Don.....thank you so much for letting us know!!

This thread has been amazing.....so much information and fascinating insights! We just hit the 100 page mark and one more reply will put it at 1,000!!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Sorry- couldn't help myself. happy 1000!!

PlumBob: The ZionOil drill site is just east of Caesarea and in Israel pre 1967 territory. Regarding the "wall" I find it fascinating that "walls" for protection have not been an issue for centuries...and now the idea of living inside or outside a wall is really important in Israel. A rabbit can walk over Hadrian's wall while access to the Great wall of China has been closed due to damage from too many tourists I understand. The difficult part of the passage revolves around the Hebrew word betach (I am interested in what the "original Greek" will tell you ) Normally it is translated safety or security but can also mean careless, confident, evn unsuspecting. In most cases in translation it is the context that helps inform the choice of words. The fact that people are dwelling peacefully can apply to the situation they are in, or to the folks themselves (ie peaceful people) in a "settled" manner. (ie settlements) The passage simply says they were dwelling without wall, gate. It does not say that they didn't need any protection. The assumption of most translators would of course be that would be the case..a life of "tranquility" as one version has it. I have sent a query to a Hebrew expert about the use of betach and hope that I get a reply. It's a little bit like asking for a legal opinion

[Snoopy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB if the general consensus between translators is the same thing, wouldn't God want everyone to agree on the meaning and understanding? How else will we be able to see the scripture come to life? With there being no confusing the act of God in the final days, a disagreement on the translation would prove to be major doubt in my mind.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Snoopy you have raised a really interesting question. There are so many editions of the Scriptures out there (for the moment let's just consider the legitimate ones, not the attempts to rip passages out or distort clear meanings) When I was much younger than I am today, I can recall sitting in Bible studies and being amazed at what some people were reading. My translation had totally different words for some verses. How could that possibly be, I wondered. Then I learned that there a number of things going on. One of these is the difficulty finding English words for some concept originally written in a different language. A simple example might be the following: there are over a dozen words in Inuit for snow, but only one in English. How does the translator accurately convey the sublety of the intended meaning. An example in our Christian walk might be the word love. You are aware that in New Testamentr Greek there are at least 3 different words translated "love" in English.
A second issue deals with the fact that Hebrew is an INCREDIBLE language based on a root word structure. An example of what this means is as follows. The Hebrew word soos is normally translated horse in English. Now we know a horse as a 4 legged animal with a mane tail etc that people can ride. But some places in the Bible this same word is tranlated as crane (bird) How on earth can a horse be a bird??? Simple- the actual root word meant simply meant "quick flight". When a soldier arrives in "quick flight" in the past that indicated he was riding on a horse. It still can mean that today. But it could also mean that he arrives on a jumbo jet or troop helicopter. Hebrew does not evlove but it is able to transend time in a way English certainly cannot. Even to refer to a locomotive in English as an "iron horse" is poetic, not descriptive. We all know a horse animal cannot be made of iron.
So what did the original author mean, you ask. Unfortunately the prophet is not around to help us out. But I can assure you that when these prophecies get fulfilled they will do so EXACTLY as the words are recorded in Scripture. Those alive at the time will know this is so!!!
It is critically important that folks be cautious about the meaning of certain passages of Scripture. Simply because one read it in the NIV or King James in English does not guarantee an exact fulfillment. What is helpful is to read the original Hebrew and understand why the translators did what they did, and the limitations of their work. The ability of Hebrew to transend time makes it such a powerful language but also means we have some homework to do. I for one find these exercises very exciting.
So often there are multiple levels to understanding a passage. One level is simply the physical realm, another the spiritual realm. Years ago I did a little study on the pagan tribes that were judged and removed from Canaan to make room for the Israelites. What a fascinating little study. For example one tribe's name meant "terror" another "possessions". In our Christian walk we face these challenges all the time. These things are always vying for our attention, loyalty or fear!
Anyway, hope this quick answer is helpful- keep on studying and asking God to show you what he wants in your life...you will be amazed at how the Scriptures open up in a brand new way. Shalom (Hebrew for peace!!)

[Snoopy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB your post has sparked some interest in me doing my own homework on the passages in this thread. Of course it has sparked some more questions as well.
Being a author of passages in the bible, and being shown things or instructed to write of things in the future, that could prove difficult to explain, why would the author choose descriptions that would not give more clues. Here is why I ask the question. If I were to describe a man riding a horse carrying a sword....that's exactly how I would say it. I see a man on a horse carrying a sword. Now if I was asked to describe something I had never seen before wouldn't I be using comparative statements? So if I have never seen a train before I would compare it to things I have seen. Like a great long chariot with no horses to pull it. The confusion is that we sometimes try to force happenings of today into a prophecy to make them fit. I do believe that sometimes the most simple answer is the right one. So if it translates as horseback, I am confident that we today have the technology to wage wars in tanks and planes, but with one EMP pulse we are back to horseback. Seems to me like we should also consider the literal translation as a very viable and believable outcome to this prophecy.

Snoopy

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Snoopy- what is the "literal translation"? If the word means literally "swift flight" does that imply horse, bird, jumbo jet etc...which one??

I'm not sure what Ezekiel actually SAW? I can tell you that when this prophecy is fulfilled it will exactly meet the text of what Ezekiel wrote, nothing less!

I notice that in Ezekiel 37 the prophet "saw`a great many bones etc". I believe he actually saw what he described. Now look over to chapters 38 and 39. No reference to seeing anything. He is recounting what God told him. "The Word of the Lord came to me" and "Prophesy against Gog and say". Later in chapter 40 he is back to describing what he saw (verse 3 etc). Nowhere in 38 or 39 does it say the prophet saw anything..no horses, no birds , no jumbo jets" We`must be careful what we assume from such passages. Now what did God Himself mean when he inspired these passages?..did he mean Russian cossacks coming over the Caucasus mountains on horseback after some pulse bomb has knocked out electronics, UN/USA troops deployed from aircraft after sipping lemonade provided by an appreciative welcome crowd of Jewish leftists at Ben Gurion airport etc, we cannot tell for certain until it actually happens. One thing I can assure you Snoopy...that you will feel the earthquake that takes out Gog's army (if this occurs in our lifetime) and you will know that the God of Israel lives and reigns on high!!

[Snoopy]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB you posted The Hebrew word soos is normally translated horse in English. Now we know a horse as a 4 legged animal with a mane tail etc that people can ride. But some places in the Bible this same word is translated as crane (bird) How on earth can a horse be a bird??? Simple- the actual root word meant simply meant "quick flight".

I guess what I am getting at is, Ezekiel would have been writing this in his own time, and not through what we can interpret it to mean today, but what it meant in his day. Language evolves through time, and meanings for words evolve with it. Look at Shakespeare. Its English but you need a glossary of terms and meanings for words you think you already know the meanings for. I just think the translation is probably the simplest explanation, and extending the "soos-quick flight" to men in planes in my opinion is forcing a translation. I think there would have been more descriptive or comparative language, in explaining something that he would never have seen before. I think it is strange that he would have used language that would imply something else in his time period.

Snoopy