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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Here is a letter I wrote to a friend:

    I did a Precept Study on Obadiah this summer that I downloaded from the internet. Do you think verse 11 is going to apply to he near future of Jerusalem as the Palestinians begin the next phase? Has this prophesy been fulfilled yet? Jordan may be at peace with Israel now but like Egypt, is secretly rejoicing over the dividing of Her land. Should we be looking at peace then war breaking out as in Ezekiel 38. or more war leading to peace then more war? Why focus on Jordan /Esau now?

    I had a dread feeling that God would not intervene on behalf of the settlers. I also think that Jerusalem will be divided again (by lots?). I also hope that the settlers will turn to Yeshua as they look for reasons why Jehovah is ignoring them. I hope they do not abandon their faith for weird fringe beliefs like Kaballah.

    My soul has been so sad this week. But when Jesus died ---it seemed to the disciples and the world that evil had triumphed and that God's power could not come through in the end. Yet the weakness of Christ in HIs death and seeming defeat was the power of God manifest for His ultimate victory in the resurection . Because of this Christ's enemies became His footstool and soon every knee will bow. This is the hope we must perservere with through grief in what seems like defeat and delusion in Israel. God is faithful and He will not abandon His very beloved of people.

    I am ready to leave with Christ and watch from above, the prophesies will be fulfilled. I cant wait to return with Christ in the final battle like the scene from Healm's gate when Gandalf returns on Shadowfax with his armies in tow .

    Wendy

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    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      I have been on holidays with my wife, three of our daughters and two grandchildren. What a blessing family is!! During this time I have read the papers. There has been extensive coverage of both the evacuations and the immense prayer rallies in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Oh how I love that little country-my heart aches for them at this critical time. A side note to Don the Baptist that I agree with your comments about prayer rallies and evacuations. Anybody that has struggled through the hundreds of posts on this thread will know that I have been puzzled about how the Gaza piece fits in to the "mountains of Israel" theme... the sand dunes don't quite qualify as mountains. I adopted a wait and see approach, not sure if God would intervene dramatically or let this part pass by, saving his "shock and awe" for the big challenge that looms ahead. IF the PA manages to control the terrorists in their midst I believe there will be immense pressure on Israel to concede the rest of the west bank. This will take some time. Someone earlier on this thread mentioned that George Bush has a window of opportunity to confirm his legacy of settling the Middle East situation (no pun intended) before his second term expires. With the leadup to the election campaign for 2008 things must wrap up by early to mid 2007. This coincides with some remarkable developments going on in Europe, scheduled to kick in by January 2007.
      For my part I am watching the cost of gasoline/oil ratchet higher. All of this plays into the heightened interest in solving the ME mess sooner rather than later.
      Lewis: thanks for the links to the sites. I followed up and found some of the information really bazarre (one site thought the Gog invasion was actually the return of the Zionists to Israel if I understaood their points correctly) I do want to study all of this material and learn what I can from it. I appreciate your help with this. Actually I have a question. When we read about a Land in Scripture we tend to mean the physical real estate as well as the inhabitants. Thus Egypt means the area along the Nile River which today has an arab population. Who knows where the original Egyptians ended up?? I could mention other examples. So when we look at MaGog, Meshech and Tubal as locations why would we not simply try and identify their location in Ezekiel's time. My studies show that these locations were close to but south of the Caucasus Mountains (including modern day Georgia) In fact there are still two cities there with names directly derived from Meshech and Tubal. Now why are folks able to claim that a city a long way away from this area (eg Moscow or Tobolsk would qualify on the basis of some ancient migration. Can you help me understand what other country/Land in Scripture that follows the same reasoning...just wondering.

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        DTB -
        Whew! I was worried about you! Good to hear from you.

        I haven't really gone down the trapline of news articles tonite. Just the picture on the front page of Fox makes me cringe. But the situation is so terribly volatile just now - who knows what will happen.

        HSB -
        Good to see you back! Glad you had a good holiday w/ your family. And as soon as I had punched the send button last nite I went off and read that there may be many IDF that essentially will not report to work - so I guess I agree that we're still in the " 'tweener " stage - nobody knows what will happen.

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        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          Is it possible that we, "The Christian Community" might go to the Throne-Room of God and petition Him on behalf of our Jewish Cousins...???

          The portion of the following article "Where are the Christians?" is appropriate... This is the time to cry out to Him on their behalf.
          ===============================
          Wednesday, August 17, 2005 17:25 IST
          JNW HEADLINE NEWS
          'Where are the Christians?'
          By Jerusalem Newswire Editorial Staff
          August 16th, 2005
          Israeli Knesset Member Yuri Shtern believes if evangelical Christians in the country were to join with Israelis and march towards Gaza to express their opposition to the uprooting of thousands of Jews from their homes it would help stop the “disengagement.”

          Shtern, a senior member of the National Union Party and co-chairman of the Christian Allies Caucus in the Israeli Knesset, was responding to questions about the disappointment expressed in some Israeli quarters at the almost non-existent response of Christians to the uprooting of Jews from the land.
          According to the plan, the Sharon government will destroy 25 Jewish towns in the Gaza Strip and northern Samaria before handing the abandoned land over to the Arabs for the creation of a Palestinian state. That state will pose an existential threat to the State of Israel.

          While millions of evangelical and other Christians support Israel and affirm the Jewish nation’s right of ownership to its biblical homeland, and while groups and organizations have consistently expressed their opposition to the land-for-peace process, apart from a handful of individuals no Christians have been seen actively opposing the uprooting.

          Some pro-Israel Christians have explained their lack of action by rejecting involvement in “political” issues.

          Speaking on condition of anonymity earlier, another Israeli involved in the Christian Allies Caucus said he was “disappointed” at the silence in the Christian world. “Where are you now that we really need you?” he asked.
          ===================================
          Join me in praying for Israel?

          God is good... And His Will will be done here on earth as it is in Heaven!

          Blessings:

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            If I were in Israel now I would be there. Yes I wish that Christians would make more of an effort to be heard politically. Not because I think politicians will change their resolve but to stand with our Jewish brothers so they feel loved and embraced and so they know they dont stand alone. I bet they feel deserted by God even. But prayer is a mighty force and thousands stand boldly before the throne of grace weeping and making intercession for them.

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            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              I met Yuri Shtern in May in Jerusalem. I just wrote to him and told him that many of us stand with hm and the Jewsh people in prayer. We too wonder where the big Christian world response is? I did give him this web site. I hope to hea back from him. Will let you know.

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              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                dont wnat this thread to get lost.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Originally posted by lewishb
                  Roch........ is the ancient name for Russian people
                  Meshech... is the ancient name for the people who later built Moscow
                  Tubal....... is the ancient name for the people around Tubalsk
                  I do not believe that in Ezekiel's day Russia was a contender.

                  Ezekiel 27:
                  1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
                  2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;
                  3 And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.
                  4 Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
                  5 They have made all thy ship boards of fir trees of Senir: they have taken cedars from Lebanon to make masts for thee.
                  6 Of the oaks of Bashan have they made thine oars; the company of the Ashurites have made thy benches of ivory, brought out of the isles of Chittim.
                  7 Fine linen with broidered work from Egypt was that which thou spreadest forth to be thy sail; blue and purple from the isles of Elishah was that which covered thee.
                  8 The inhabitants of Zidon and Arvad were thy mariners: thy wise men, O Tyrus, that were in thee, were thy pilots.
                  9 The ancients of Gebal and the wise men thereof were in thee thy calkers: all the ships of the sea with their mariners were in thee to occupy thy merchandise.
                  10 They of Persia and of Lud and of Phut were in thine army, thy men of war: they hanged the shield and helmet in thee; they set forth thy comeliness.
                  11 The men of Arvad with thine army were upon thy walls round about, and the Gammadims were in thy towers: they hanged their shields upon thy walls round about; they have made thy beauty perfect.
                  12 Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kind of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.
                  13 Javan, Tubal , and Meshech, they were thy merchants: they traded the persons of men and vessels of brass in thy market.
                  14 They of the house of Togarmah traded in thy fairs with horses and horsemen and mules.
                  15 The men of Dedan were thy merchants; many isles were the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee for a present horns of ivory and ebony.
                  16 Syria was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of the wares of thy making: they occupied in thy fairs with emeralds, purple, and broidered work, and fine linen, and coral, and agate.
                  17 Judah, and the land of Israel, they were thy merchants: they traded in thy market wheat of Minnith, and Pannag, and honey, and oil, and balm.
                  18 Damascus was thy merchant in the multitude of the wares of thy making, for the multitude of all riches; in the wine of Helbon, and white wool.
                  19 Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market.
                  20 Dedan was thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.
                  21 Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they occupied with thee in lambs, and rams, and goats: in these were they thy merchants.
                  22 The merchants of Sheba and Raamah, they were thy merchants: they occupied in thy fairs with chief of all spices, and with all precious stones, and gold.
                  23 Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.
                  24 These were thy merchants in all sorts of things, in blue clothes, and broidered work, and in chests of rich apparel, bound with cords, and made of cedar, among thy merchandise.
                  25 The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.

                  Phut is translated at Libya in Ezekiel 38. Meshech and Tubal were merchants of Tyre. Did Moscow really trade with Tyre? This chapter does seem not consistent with a Russian Gog.



                  Originally posted by HSB
                  …Someone earlier on this thread mentioned that George Bush has a window of opportunity to confirm his legacy of settling the Middle East situation (no pun intended) before his second term expires. With the leadup to the election campaign for 2008 things must wrap up by early to mid 2007. This coincides with some remarkable developments going on in Europe, scheduled to kick in by January 2007…
                  Let's see … early to mid 2007 would include May 16, 2007 or Yom Yerushayalim a.k.a. Jerusalem Day (Iyyar 28). This is the 40th anniversary of the FULL restoration of Israel. If Jesus does not come back sooner I would look for something of significance to happen around that time.

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    Javan, Tubal , and Meshech, traded with Israel by sending vessels down the rivers into the Black sea, through the Dardenelles along the coast of Turkey and Lebanon to Israel. Phoenicians of this period were going to England, Brazil in South America...... 1500 years later (500-1200AD) the Vikings sent their Long Ships up the same rivers from the Black and Baltic seas and established the modern Russian empire. I do know a little bit about history
                    Last edited by lewisb; 08-20-2005, 02:51 PM.

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      Originally posted by lewishb
                      Javan, Tubal , and Meshech, traded with Israel by sending vessels down the rivers into the Black sea, through the Dardenelles along the coast of Turkey and Lebanon to Israel. Phoenicians of this period were going to England, Brazil in South America...... 1500 years later (500-1200AD) the Vikings sent their Long Ships up the same rivers from the Black and Baltic seas and established the modern Russian empire. I do know a little bit about history
                      Lewis,
                      what source have you found to support the travels of the Phoenicians?

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        for a start you can go to phoenicia.org
                        see the books Saga America and America BC by Dr Barry Fell.. available online bookstores, i have them, "Dead mens secrets" by Johnathan Gray he has web sites www.beforeus.com and www.archeaologyanswers.com
                        Last edited by lewisb; 08-20-2005, 08:55 PM.

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                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          The wesbite http://phoenicia.org/index.shtml is not valid. This man claims to be a Christian but rejects the Bible:
                          The Bible and/or Tanach and History
                          There is some history in the Bible, Torah and Apocryphal writings, but using any of these books for historical research and discussions is unacceptable. I am a Christian and do respect the Bible as a book of faith not history. Scriptures and their mythological stories are unreliable historical sources; however, some historical outlines from the same books may be used in very limited terms. So-called proofs of historical or genealogical significance based on these books are respectfully rejected. Those who are displeased with my statements on the Bible are invited to leave this site immediately -- no discussions. Fundamentalist Christians/Catholics, Jews or Muslims, consider yourselves duly warned that you will be severely dealt with, if you do not stop badgering me with your impudent e-mails.
                          For example, he thinks Noah was fictional.

                          That source jsut won't do.

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            I notice that the military is now saying they will need to be in Iraq until at least 2009. There are all kinds of reasons for this but what really matters? The future matters. This may be one or a set of the many bases or staging points from which the "peacekeepers" in Ezekiel 38-39 start off. Should we think that the invaders come from only one base or many? We are keeping a strong presence in the Middle East.

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                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              History is history regardless of a persons bias vs the Bible... what phoenicia.org says about ancient phoenician voyages is true.
                              there are several different sources such as phoenician coins showing the coast of brazil, phoenician writings, cities in the amazon with phoenician inscriptians, such inscriptians throughout the americas.
                              in my hometown Bourne Mass is a phoenician inscriptian mentioning the legendary king Hanno of Carthage. Roman coins were found in the american colonies ,
                              an ancient greek shipwreck found on the yucatan, mexico..... some Maine indians haveing a written language of egyptian informal script with their ledgends saying the came from a land the other side of the atlantic.
                              Punic(spanish-Iberian phoenician) temples in New England....... hundreds of HUGE pyramid mounds in the Ohio/ Mississippi valley, some were once as large as the Egyptian pyramids..... some Indians with religious rituals astonishingly simular to the ancient Hebrew temple worship...... The legends of the Aztecs and Mayas and Incas many of them blond or red haired.
                              100 years ago most scholars knew about this, believed this.....
                              then their sucessors decided they didnt want to believe it (being PC) and have buried the truth.........

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                I am interested to know if things are playing out according to the views expressed by some of the more senior people on this thread.

                                When is the wrath of God supposed to intervene and in this withdrawl scenario. We are getting dangerously close to a Palastinian state in Israel.

                                Any thoughts.

                                Snoopy

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