Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[B_A]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hi everyone

i've tried twice to post a response to this and both times i've hit a key on the key board and poof everything just vanishes. This is post number 3 and i'll try again tomorrow.

Sorry folks this is my 1st post and i'm writing this one on the off chance that the other 2 somehow found their way here and you wind up reading 2 completely seperate unfinished thoughts.

Well then, can i make an entrance or what

Bill A.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Dear B A: Welcome to this board and to this particular thread. We look forward to hearing your thoughts, now that you've got the hang of posting!

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hi Folks:

This is my first attempt at getting into the Chat Room experience... I have enjoyed reading the various opinions.... and from time-to-time, hope to add my own cents worth... to that end:

I agree with your thoughts here... Once people begin to understand the enormity of the problem that the 2-state solution is spawning... they will hopefully start to get their Representatives alerted... Myself? I think it is far too late in the bigger scheme of things... there is no wiggle-room here... The Americans are committed to a course of action that has only heartache and bloodshed ahead!!! It takes far too much time and energy to get the ship America heading into another direction... The time-table is far far too short... 2005 a very interesting year!

As for praying that God send a Vision to George and somehow George leads the Building of the Temple... I just strongly believe that as America has taken God out of its Schools, its Courts, its Government, its Society... God in turn has lifted His Hand of protection. Unless there is a National repentance, and turning back to the Christian Principles and the God of our Fathers, that warranted God's Blessings [as no other group of people in all of recorded history].... then there only remains a fearful looking forward to chastizement in increasing measure. Those who Bless Israel... I [God] will bless [and He has]... However... Those who Curse Israel... I [God] will curse! He does not lie! He will do exactly as He has said He would... History has proven time and time again... History really is... His - Story!!!!! America has blessed Israel... and... America has been blessed above all other Nations. However, curse Israel once and He [God] will curse... Taking Orthedox Jews [Who do Love God] and have come back to the Mountains of Israel; off their [His] Land is so against Ez. 36... That I fear for America's safety!

Woulda-shoulda-coulda... is wishful thinking! The Facts are simply this... Go against God's stated purposes... AND YOU LOOSE! No matter how Strong you are, no matter how right you feel, no matter how justified you make yourself... if you take on God... your on the loosing side!

We need to be extending love & blessings to God's Chosen People... we need to be doing everything in our power to help them home to their Land... Not be party to taking it away from them!

Winston Churchill divided Palestine 20% for the Israelites [everything west of the Jordan River]... And 80% for the Arabs [now mostly Jordan - Seria - etc.]
We are now talking about dividing the 20% up again?????? After 1948 when Israel was formed... Arabs attacked outnumbering Israel 400 to 1... they still do [outnumber Israel 400 to 1]... How has the media managed to turn little Israel into Goliath of the Middle East??? Jordan then came across the Jordan River and hacked out what is known today as "The WEST Bank"... they made it Jordanian Territory... existing 'palestinians' were not given Jordanian Citizenship, but rather relagated to enclosures [By-the-way... those enclosures still exist today... Palestinian encampments]... who put the Palestinian into enclosures... Jordan did! Who did the Israelies drive out of the West Bank? JORDANIAN Soldiers... from Jordanian Territory!!!!

The Palestinian "Problem" is one of the collective making of the Arab countries... it is something that they need to keep festering... and America has begun to buy the lie!!! Palestinians living inside controlled Israeli territory live better lives, get to vote, hold office in Government, have Health care, etc.... they live better lives inside Israel than anywhere else!!! Why a Palestinian inside Israel needing a heart transplant... when in line can, and has, received a Jewish boy's heart killed in a motor vehicle accident!!! When has a Jew been accepted as a citizen of an Arab country? Palestinians live and participate within Israeli everyday life... How many Israelies live in Jordan? In Seria? in Egypt? in Lebbenon? ZERRO!!!! Why???

I've rambled on here for a reason... get to the facts... find out what is happening, and most importantly what has been happening over there in that small piece of Land that God said would be a stumbbling block to ALL Nations... that all includes America as George sets out to do what no other Nation has been able to do... and that is bring peace to the Middle East. Peace will only be obtained... when the Prince-of-Peace arrives!!! And thats not very far away either...

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hello B A.....

Hello Don Brooks.....
("Don the Baptist" - I LOVE it )

WELCOME! We're really glad to have both of you w/ us!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

PlumBob

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Welcome to both Bill and Don! May you have many happy years on this board, learning and encouraging with the rest of us.

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I for one certainly appreciate Don Brooks' concise, accurate assessment of the case before us. Whereas I may be dreaming and seeing hope where no hope is, his comments lay out accurately the facts of the matter. One fact is, that, like instances of death-bed repentance, a nation rarely changes its course, unless God very dramatically intervenes with unusual grace--or judgment. I think of Nebuchadnezzar, who was once given over to prideful idol worship, and was only brought back to truth and reality after God made him pass for "seven times" through a beastly stage.

I return to HSB's option 3.

I believe that there will be constant and perpetual agitating by the nations for a Palestinian State, and that it will very nearly become a reality, when suddenly, The Greatest Of Agitators will shake the ground.

I base my conclusion on the fact that God has declared in numerous places in the Torah and the Prophets, that the land of Israel would lie desolate during Israel's longest exile. And I see nowhere in prophecy here God said that that the Land would host a non-Jewish state, at anytime. And if the historical pattern set out in Daniel's prophecy is any hint, the land would be variously contolled from the outside by a powerful Gentile entities. But No gentile nation would be set up in the inside of it. And this order has played out from Nebuchadnezzar's conquest in 586BC, right through to 1948AD

I have heard a rebuttal to this position, which says that the scriptures say that the land would be divided for gain, to which I agree--for gain (which I assume to be divisions into commercial zones, which the AC will major on), but not into political sections, or nations.

Now since I believe this to be the arrangement permitted by word of God, I do not believe that a Palestinian State will ever be realized between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, ever if the full seven billions of the world's population work together to try and bring it to pass!

At the same time, I believe that God will unload a few implements from with His armory, and prove again that He, The Lord of Hosts, is also a Man Of War.

Look out Planet Earth!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

...I think of Nebuchadnezzar, who was once given over to prideful idol worship, and was only brought back to truth and reality after God made him pass for "seven times" through a beastly stage.

Thank you ZG, for inadvertantly explaining the reason for the "seven times" in reference to Nebuchadnezzar's exile in Daniel. I am in the middle of a Precepts study on Daniel, and every time I read that strange time reference, I have been puzzled. Just the way you worded it above explained it to me. Thank you!

(Privately, of course, I say to myself, DUH!! )

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Zion Gene, I for one will stand with you in prayer that God would speak directly to President Bush. So now we have 2.

I've read both of your last posts several times, and Don the Baptist's post. Regretably, changing the course of our nation is like stopping the Queen Mary - difficult, and takes a lot of energy. But I wouldn't want to have said that I was not willing to plead Israel's cause, on behalf of our nation, w/ the Creator of the Universe.

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

From what I have read in scripture and learned from biographies of godly people since the church era began, it appears to me that God's ear is particularly attuned to the concerns of a mother on the behalf of her child. I think of Hagar, the mother of Ishmael who was visited by an angel; Hannah the mother of Samuel, who became second only after Moses to be called an "Eved Adonai" (servant of the Lord)--and the last one before Christ (The Servant Of The Lord) to be so designated.

I think of John Wesley's mother who improvised a secret place to pray for all nineteen of her children, by bringing her apron up, and throwing it over her head: she had to find a method (talking about Methodism) to pray and to keep an eye half-open on them, all at the same time. She produced a son, who at 86 complained against himself in his diary, that he realized that he was getting lazy because he found himself still in bed at 5:30AM. He also was the man to preach over 40000 sermons--often on horseback--in England, and so saved that nation from the kind of spiritual destruction which was then sweeping Europe, and especially France with its Revolution. What praying mothers have done for the destinies of nations! (Which leads me into the main point that I want to make.)

Do any of you good Christian folks out there know what is the church affiliation of the mother of the President Of The United States; and have any of you any idea how she might be influenced to implore God not to allow her son to make a mistake in this Palestinian State business?

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I listened to Tamar’s whole program. Ezekiel 27:13 says, “Javan, Tubal, and Meshech, they were thy merchants: they traded the persons of men and vessels of brass in thy market.” To who is ”thy” referring? It is Tyre from verse 1. Meshech and Tubal traded with Tyre. For Siberia to be Tubal, as the program suggested, they would have to have established trade with Tyre. Looking at the map, I just can’t believe that. I don’t believe Moscow traded with Tyre either. I believe Meshech and Tubal are probably found somewhere closer to eastern Turkey, northern Iraq, Armenia, Daghestan or Georgia. They come from somewhere in the north quarters. I do not believe “the uttermost north” is accurate. Who is Gog? Is Gog from the north quarters or is he the chief prince over Meshech and Tubal? To be the chief prince you do not have to be from that area. The force, peacekeeping or invasion, comes from the north but it does not mean it is from the north. All of the nations joining in Ezekiel 38 are not from the north but come to Israel from the north. Look at the nations in Ezekiel 38. They are Islamic. Who is their head? Who is their chief prince? Their head is Mecca. Why couldn’t Gog be Mecca? If Mecca is destroyed as well as the area around it, Medina may be destroyed, too. That would leave an Islamic would with a greatly reduced population, a defeated people and the remaining most holy place to them would be the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. Even more focus would be on Jerusalem than there is now and an even greater need to work out a peace deal. Millions can make a Hajj to Mecca. Can that many journey to Jerusalem?

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Lay it to Heart: I agree with many of your observations about Tubal etc. I know that people have a wide variety of opinions about this whole topic. What we know from recent world events is that a "deal" is shaping upthat will take the West Bank away from the Jewsih settlers and make another Arab state out of it. I was trying to get folks tofocus on whether in fact this will happen, and if so, how so. Personally I do not think God Almighty will allow it, given the things He has already committed to in His Word. I have my own thoughts about who Gog is and what is likely to transpire in the near future. While my heart is with Zion Gene is calling for national repentance (Ninevah turned judgment away from its doorstep by similar repentance so it is certainly possible) I reluctantly side with Don the Baptist that time is up and the "end game" is about to get played out sooner than later.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Welcome Bill and Don the Baptist!

Thanks again everyone for all your posts...I'm reading!

I too have been praying for President Bush, that he would seek God's will above his own or anyone elses.

I was wondering....Doesn't the Bible say that eventually all nations will turn against Israel? Could we see this starting to happen? Or is there a difference between helping to divide Israel and turning against Israel?

I'm sorry if this isn't relevant...I don't want to derail this great thread. I'm posting this with a bit of hesitation...but oh well...it won't be the first or last time I say something totally out of context

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Lightseeker: your comment is very appropriate. All nations will come against Israel. This may be some traditional invasion force or even a United Nations effort to set up a new palestinian state- the effect will be the same...to remove Jews from the Land by force (they certainly won't go on their own) It might be done with good motives or simply tiredness at the continuing rash of terrorist strikes, in an effort to provide some "balance" or "even-handedness". Israel represents less than .5% of the land in the Middle East and a negligible fraction of that in the world. The God whom we serve has put His claim to this TINY little piece of property. Woe to those who desire to take it away.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Thanks HSB for your encouragement. I have more questions...but I really don't want to get this thread off topic...I'll post another thread.

Look what ya started now hahahaha!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I don't know if many of you listen to Dr. J. Vernon McGee, but not too long ago, he was preaching on the subject of the 1948 return of Israel to her land as not actually being fulfillment of prophecy because she has not yet called on God as her God. Or something to that effect. I was kind of astounded that he would say such a thing considering that he was such a dispensationalist. But he was referring to prophecy that says that when God brings Israel back into the land, she will call him Her God, and since that hasn't happened, there is the possiblity that Israel could be taken out of the land and dispersed once again.

I was wondering what any of you thought of this scenario.