Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I have made contact with the man refered to me by my friends in Tiberias. He says he will discuss Ezekiel with me. I have just written him with the website info and will see if he will engage with us lot here. Finishing Daniel and my head is reeeling, now Ezekiel , I want to be up to the challenge.

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB, I believe that it was just after WWI that the Balfour Declaration was made. But immediately upon that, the strategic value of Arab oil began to be appreciated, and Britain tried to appease the Arabs, by diminishing it committments to the Jews, and virtually promising both of them the same territory. I have the book "O Jerusalem" somewhere in my attic, which lays this all out in great detail.

As to the British Empire: I see a principle at work in His shuffling of the Gentile nations, ever since Nebuchadnezzar, which I stated before: God promoted the most excellent (least evil) of them to go to the fore, and He indicated that choice by allowing that nation eventual control of the Land of Israel for a period of time. Notice that he denied Hitler that pearl, when General Mountgomery pulverized the German panza tanks of Rommel in the deserts of Egypt. Incidentally, the reason why I believe that God will never allow the Palestine descendants of Esaau to control, or have a state in the Holy Land, is for the same reason why he denied control there to the Germans. Neither Germany nor the Palesinians had, or have any moral or spiritual excellence which would commend them to God.

But England initiated its decline at the point where it stumbled at the "stumbling stone" of the Land Of Israel in the late 1940's, and given the animosity which Tony Blair's England displays toward the Nation Of Israel today, it will neve rise to pride of place again

However, it cannot be denied, that as nations and empires went, Britain was not called Great for nothing. It must have been at least unusually diligent, and enlightened in its ideals--if not always in practice--to have spawned off the American nation, Canada, India, many African and Asian nations, and a host of other countries.

When I think of the dominance which the British practiced, I ask this question. "What lack of good sense; of self-preservation; of protection of one'sr own people, made it easy and convenient for Britian to come into these peoples own lands and control them?" They must have defaulted before God in some significant way, before the colonizer and his chains arrived.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

ZG: an interesting theory of how God allows "enlightened" gentile nations to control Israel. Does that extend to the Crusaders who locked Jews in their synagogues before burning them to the ground. If you go way back in history the Assyrians knocked out the northern kingdom for good. These rascals had the quaint custom of skinning people alive. Nevertheless God has continued to support the Jews in the diaspora. Now He is bringng them back to the Land of Promise. Woe to anyone who stands in the way.

Layittoheart: I enjoyed your little map of the Golan area, having just travelled through that region less than a month ago. There are some magnificient wheat field and the cherries are absolutely delicious. We climbed down to Gamla (the Masada of the North) where five thousand Jews jumped to their deaths rather than surrender to the angry Roman legionaires. There are steep ravines all around the place..maybe one of these will end up being hamonGog. PS It was interesting to drive by the front lines and see israeli tanks in hull down fire positions along the roadway.

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Dont forget HSB, that at the Fall of Jerusalem, it was squabbling among the Jews themselves that made them so vulnerable to what the Romans did. What Sharon is doing now against his own people is comparable, because he is certainly making it easier for Gentiles to slaughter Jews. I do not know if you take Josephus seriously, but he indicated that Titus the Roman general in charge did not want to destroy the temple by fire, but the defenders were so dead set against surrender, that he could not restrain the fury of his men in response. Gentiles were never able to overcome a godly and spiritual Israel, if the case of Sennacherib's demise in the book of Isaiah is any example

At the Fall of Jerusalem, a baby was eaten by the defenders. An evil like this cannot be justified: evil was certainly on both sides. I am not justifying the atrocities of the Crusaders or anyone else when I say that there seems a principle at work in God's dealings of the Gentiles nations vis-a-vis the Jews. And I hope that you will not even hint that I support terror against the Jews for any reason, at anytime

HSB, it does no good to make our Jewish friends think that we believers in Christ do not recognize the reasons for their jeopardy--present and historic. Idolatry caused the exile in Babylon; and rejection of their own Messiah caused the one which lasted for nearly thirty time longer than the first one. At some point this has to be said, if you and I are to be faithful to God-- alhough we regret the fact. How else will they ever be made to realize that maybe--just maybe-- they went off the track when they rejected Christ

HSB, if you insist, I can show you from the closing chapters of Chronicles and Kings, where the principle which I speak of was at work and was recognized--but I do not want to get in a long drawn out discussion about that, which is beside the main point of this thread. The attackers were appalled at how low the defenders had gone morally.

I know of what the Crusaders did. I also know of the massacre at the Shatila camp in Lebanon for which Israel was declared responsible. but I do not wipe all Israelis with that brush.

I hope that if you continue to doubt the pinciple which I imply in my last thread, that you would carefully consider the texts of scripture, straight from Deuteronomy through to Malachi, and determine if the bible supports it or not.

I guess that I should say that it will be a waste of time unless you and I bring scripture to support our statements on this point

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

ZG: I agree with the points you have made here. The Jews have often been guilty of gross error. At the fall of Jerusalem I understand the factions inside Jerusalem fought each other with as much or more fury than displayed against the Romans. I do put considerable credence in the accounts of Josephus. I have on occasion asked Jews to privately consider, just consider the possibility that in fact they made a really big mistake two thousand years ago when they rejected Jesus (I hesitate to say "killed Jesus" )

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I guess I could make life easier for mysel by being diplomatic and by avoiding harsh issues, but looking back, I wish I had been more faithful to God in this and in other ways. Most people simply sidestep things which may cause discomfort, and after all, when did God appoint me to correct anything

[Humble]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Wasn't the Temple burned to remove the tons of gold that adorned the walls, etc.?

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Humble, the gold could have been gotten without burning the building. It was burned because it was the location of last hold-out of the Jews fighting the Romans, and the Romans burned it to kill the folks inside.

After the fire subsided, melted gold had seeped into the foundation and floor stones of the temple. Then, in order to get at the gold in the crevices of the stones, the soldiers used crow-bar like tools, and pried apart the stones, and lifted them up, and break them apart to get at the gold. Then was fulfilled the detail of the prediction of Jesus when He said that, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another."

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB, I thank God that they did kill him--according to Peter's words.

God would have only accepted the Lamb to take away the sins of the world, if it was offered at the hands of the Levitical Tribe. God would not have accepted The Sacrifice at the hands of a Caucasion, or Soul Brother, or Asiatic Group, or even the Romans only. We do not realize (yes some of us do) how great a favor the Jews did us unknowingly--and to their own hurt-- when they gave Him over to the Romans to have Him killed. That is why when I hear Jew-haters dispisingly blame them for rejecting Jesus, I say to myself, "There goes a heathen who does not know Christ."

When people try to tell me how bad the Jews were or are, I remember that the shed blood that saved my soul came forth from a Jewish male. As far as I am concerned, the rest is a family problem between God and His First People, into which I have no right to poke my nose; and in the meantime I go on favoring them because God does

[Humble]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Thanks ZG.
I know I remember reading something about the melted gold seeping into cracks, and that's why they took it apart.
I would have loved to have seen it. (The Temple, not the destruction)

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

God would have only accepted the Lamb to take away the sins of the world, if it was offered at the hands of the Levitical Tribe .... We do not realize (yes some of us do) how great a favor the Jews did us unknowingly--and to their own hurt-- when they gave Him over to the Romans to have Him killed.

ZionGene, this is the most important thing you have said altogether to make sense about who killed Jesus. Thank you very much. This changes completely the view we should take regarding the Jewish people (great love and mercy), and no wonder that some day, they will be like the stars shining in the firmament ruling over the nations. How great a favour indeed!

[ZionGene]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

To give yourself a blessing, I invite you to listen to "This Week's Interview" at www.prophecytoday.com , between a member of the Sanhedrin and Jimmy DeYoung. Among other things, the rabbi says that he expects the newly constituted Sanhedrin to replace the Supreme Court in Israel. He also said that greater troubles in Israel will cause the people to ask that the Sanhedrin repace the court. He also spoke extensively about practical questions (such as exactly where the Altar Of Burnt Offerings stood) are being explored.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

ZionGene: I like the way you put that "the rest is a familiy problem between God and His first people" I firmly believe that the age will not conclude until this relationship is resolved and the little nation of Israel is a true light to the nations it was always intended to be. In the meantime I, like you, want to love and support them. HSB I enjoyed the Jimmy DeYoung radio broadcast.

PS I have often wondered if down deep in the Muslim consciousness there is a realization that the moongod Allah is not equal to the God of Israel. Someday all the knees will bow, and it won't be towards Mecca!

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I have been looking for pictures of the area. I would think that we could not figure out the actual valley where Hamongog will be but get a general idea of the area. The map below shows highways in the area, the 1949 armistice lines east of the sea and some of the contour.



Full size map:
http://www.gl.iit.edu/govdocs/maps/G...ettlements.gif

I do not see lot of valleys to bury the dead. Here is one valley in east of the sea at the south end. The photo is taken from Jordan just south of the Golan. The Sea of Galilee is in the left background. The Yarmuk River is in front of the big mountain.


Full size picture:
http://www.ekkw.de/ziegenhain/media_...ain/Yarmuk.jpg

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Here is a contour map showing the background mountain in light yellow.
I have shrunk the photos to show on smaller screens and take less bandwidth.



Full size:
http://www.dalalsalameh.org/Mabspics...lanHeights.jpg

Here is a view eastward across the Sea of Galilee.



http://www.newsinisrael.com/images/Golan_Heights.JPG


There is a valley in the middle on the other side. While the areas are not huge, a lot of soldiers could end up there. While I was digging up some of these photos I also could see just how small Israel is. Galilee is only about 13 miles long. Israel is so small and yet there is such a huge force against it.