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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Ron, my typo slip just invented 2 more. I will go back and correct that. Thanks for catching me in that error

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    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Good Morning, All -

      I thought I would post this last night, but decided no - and this morning I have a proper opportunity.

      I spent this past week in Washington DC - at a computers-in-healthcare conference. I heard presentations by an infulential Representative & one of Mr. Bush's Cabinet members, listened to Mr. Bush himself in a taped interview, listened to Mr. Greenspan's testimony, and had conversations w/ more than a small handfull of rather well-connected bureaucrats. What struck me as very intersting through the whole process was that not once the whole week, did I hear a single word about the middle east. NOT ONE. Granted, I was in a very - uhhh, "myoptic" conference, but spent considerable time listening to the conversations of others in restaurants, etc. It is as if Israel is a non-issue there. And life goes on.

      HSB, I appreciated your post just above - that summarized your premise again. I can genuinely say that I don't know that you've been quite so lucid and succinct in pulling all of your thoughts together, before. Back to HSB's basics, so to say.

      Andy, is there a way to add an integral spell-checker to the board? Like ZionGene, I find myself making quite a few typos (granted it wouldn't find the difference between 50 states and 52) but I find that otherwise I must compose in WordPerfect (my word processing program of choice) and pasting in.

      ZionGene, I rather imagine that you were thinking of Puerto Rico as #51, and perhaps DC itself as #52. I was amused at the DC license plates, one version of which declares "Taxation Without Representation."

      Will write more later -

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        No PlumBob. No other excuse for my mistake!

        If my fingers alone did the talking, that would have meant disconnecting them from my brain, and blaming them.

        This reminds me of the story of the judge, who agreed to allow only the hand of the thief to remain in jail, because the thief blamed his hand for the crime.

        One might also say that it was a Freudian slip which indicated my wish that the USA be expanded, but I am content with the 50 states that we have now.

        It would be nice if others, like Ron, would show such zeal for the size of our country, and not do foolishness vis-a-vis Israel that might provoke God to diminish it.

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        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          Thanks HSB for the nut shell. I used to think definitely Pre trib rapture but I am really flexible on that. My main reason was that I didn't see the people of God being judged, however if he wants us to stay and provide support for our Israeli friends then here an I send me. And although I long for heaven I'll go when the time is right. I'm certainly looking forward to the ride.

          Back to Israel:

          When God called Israel home to the Land he told them to go to the Mtns Ez36:8-10, Jer30+31. The enemy of God that serpent of old --the devil---(Allah--the moon god) will come directly against Israel there in the disengagement (usurption) of the settlements of the West Bank--the area given to Gods people. So who gets the Mtns? The UN, EU, Palestinians? The world says it doesnt belong to the Jews.

          So when the enemy comes in like a flood won't the God of Israel --Jehovah Nissi , raise up a standard? My heart tells me He wont let these faithful people and all they have worked for be destroyed . For want of just a few people he would have spared Sod and Gormorrah. Zion Bob told us about the sun setting on Brittania when she turned her back on Israel. We see now a testing of the nations. Who will stand with Israel and the God of prophesy? The nations are being weighed perhaps, in the balances.... Perhaps the times of the Gentiles ARE being fulfilled.

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            I thought there were 52 states in America:
            #51 Mexico (Mexico probably has more votes than some of the 50 states)
            #52 Palestine (We are paying fot it)

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            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              Oh yeah as I was reading HsB's post--- I was thinking that if I was writing a novel about the end times, Javier Solana would be a good name for the AntiChrist . It sounds a bit exotic and Solana looks to me like it means 'sun' or "power".
              Dont we know a angel of light who thinks he is powerful.

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              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                Ron: what a great website of info..and from the CIA no less! Of course now that you have shared that with us, you don't have to ...you know, do serious harm to us, do you?

                Seriously I have a question for ZionGene and possibly others. I am tacking this on to the existing submission, trying to conserve my posts (I don't know how many you need accumulate in order to get tagged as a WEDG "addict" but we must be getting close

                Anyway ZG you mentioned that the collapse of the British Empire was connected to their renegging on support to the Jews after WW2. I would have thought the British were undermining the Jewish immigration to Israel during the entire duration of their mandate after the first world war, in favour of courting arab sympathies. The book From Time Immemorial shares some really interesting background on this topic. I am personally of British extract and I have to share I have mixed feeling about the history of this people. Oh the arrogance of European powers that thought the whole world was open to their conquest and exploitation. In fact I had a good chat one time with an Israeli sabra (born in the country) who blamed the British for much of the problem in the ME. He said they were absolute masters of playing one faction off against another, while quietly maintaining their own ruthless control. How else can you explain how a handful of redcoat battalions could hold the entire Indian subcontinent for so long. I for one don't think that the "loss" of the "jewel of the crown" was anything other than the liberation of a subject people.
                Last edited by HSB; 06-12-2005, 11:47 AM.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  There are two peoples of God, if I am not mistaken: Ethnic and natinonal Israel ,and the Church comprised of all born-again believers.

                  I had assumed that there are three judgments which can be applied the Church. The judgment for the sins of its members which took place at the cross; the daily chastening of it individuals which Christ personally oversees now; and the Judgment Seat Of Christ which is still future.

                  I believe that to say that there is a judgment to purge believers before they they are fit to stand before God, or to be taken up in the Rapture, is not supported by scripture, or by such types as the careless Lot, who had nevertheless to be taken out of Sodom, before God rained fire upon it (the angel Himself said so). I believe that to say otherwise, is to lessen the totality of the forgiveness obtained at the cross for every believer who trusts in Him.

                  On the other hand, many scriptures establish the fact, that for Israel, there will be a purging period on this earth during the Time Of Jacob's Trouble, simply because they in general have not yet submitted themselves to the righteousness and pardon of God, which is obtained for all those who believe in Christ.

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    FURTHERMORE



                    I believe that although many of the prophetic books do not follow a timeline, the untimate book of prophecy--The Book Of Revelation--does, and at the beginning of the book it speaks of certain things for a certain time. Then when it is finished with that body of information and predictions, it tells of certain things for times after the previous ones. Here are the texts, with highlighted sections.

                    Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

                    i understand from this that the history of the then present churches, and those to come within the church age are summarized. Then John speaks of another time slot of events which would come thereafter.

                    Revelation 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

                    It is significant to me that John hears the call to “Come up hither.” It reminds me another text in the Book of Isaiah 26:20, where it says,

                    Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.”

                    I believe that both of these texts refer to the same event in the future, when the church (Christ’s ambassadors) will be withdrawn, as a sign of God’s declaration of war on the world’s wicked inhabitants. And not only does John hear that call, but he sees in heaven the 24 elders, which I assume to be the church comprised of both Jews and Gentiles (two twelves). And only after that, does he see the unveiling of the seals and the judgments etc. upon the earth, which I understand to indicate that none of these will come to pass while the church at large is on the earth.
                    Last edited by ZionGene; 06-12-2005, 03:18 PM.

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      It looks as if a complete disengagement cannot occur because the valley of Hamongog appears to be in the settlement areas. Hamongog is the place where they bury the dead bodies of the enemy in Ezekiel 39:

                      11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
                      12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
                      13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
                      14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
                      15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man’s bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
                      16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
                      17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
                      18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

                      I do not know exactly where the valley of Hamongog is but I do see three clues to its location.

                      1. Verse 11 says Gog will have a burial place in Israel.
                      2. Verse 11 also says it is east of the sea.
                      3. Verse 18 calls these people fatlings of Bashan.

                      With respect to the first clue, we should consider Israel to be the land God gave to the Jews and not the land as the United Nations or the neighboring countries assert it to be.

                      As far as the second clue is concerned, we find the valley is east of the sea. Which sea is it talking about? It would be senseless to refer to the Mediterranean Sea because all Israel is basically east of the Mediterranean. I don't believe it will be the Dead Sea either. The area east of the Dead Sea is not in Israel as verse 11 requires. It would be in Jordan who occupies the land of Edom, Moab and Ammon. Jordan is not listed in the group that is destroyed in this terrible event. Eliminating the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea leaves the Sea of Galilee, which has also been called Lake Tiberius and Yam Kinneret.

                      Finally, the enemies falling upon the mountains of Israel are from Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Persia, Cush, Libya, Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with them. The end of verse 18 calls all of them fatlings of Bashan. These countries are not from Bashan but may be called fatlings of Bashan because they die there. Bashan was given to the half tribe of Manasseh. Joseph, being the first born of Rachel, was given a double inheritance and his two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh were each given a full portion. It is east of the Jordan and north of the Yarmuk. It is now called the Golan.

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        The battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39 may be spread all over Isreal. From what I can see, though, the burial is east of the Galilee, in Israel and in Bashan. That limits the site to a valley in an area about 13 miles long in the north and south direction and from 4 miles wide in the south to 13 miles wide in the north. Here is a settlement map with about 18 settlements east of the sea:



                        Full size map:
                        http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/L...48/golan1.html
                        For a complete Israel 1996 map see:
                        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lements_bw.JPG

                        When the enemy is destroyed it will be buried in Israel in the settlement area east of the Sea of Galilee. If these settlements were abandoned, why would it still be called Israel? Why would the enemy even invade it?

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                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          wendyj here is a website to checkout concerning Javier Solana as the possible AntiChrist http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            I think it is scandalous and God-dishonoring for anyone to try naming the Antichrist before he is revealed, and pointing at an individual who is now alive, as possibly being or becoming the Antichrist
                            Last edited by ZionGene; 06-13-2005, 12:34 AM.

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                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              Lay It To Heart, I appreciate that map and that analysis of yours. The conclusion naturally following from your question is that there will not be a Palestinian state, nor so-called disengagement from Judaea and Samaria that stands for any long period of time. Unless of course, there is much much more time ahead--measured in decades--for things to materialize otherwse, then to be reversed.

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                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                Originally posted by kennygg
                                wendyj here is a website to checkout concerning Javier Solana as the possible AntiChrist http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/
                                Wow I was just joking on that one. This just gets more surreal.

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