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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Welcome, wendyj -

    I'll echo that I think all of us would be very interested in opinions, observations and thoughts directly from Israel.

    I've been away for a week - every time I do that I have several pages of posts to catch up. Exciting times.

    PlumBob

    Comment


    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Good Morning Wendyj! How exciting to see you here and all that you have to offer. Somehow I just knew you would fit in here

      Yes, we are all looking forward to hearing what your friends have to say in regards to this thread. Our fascination with the Word of God and His people only strengthens when we discuss and teach one another.

      Mal 3:16 - Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
      And the Lord listened and heard them;
      So a book of remembrance was written before Him
      For those who fear the Lord
      And who meditate on His name.

      "They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts,
      "On the day that I make them My jewels.*
      And I will spare them
      As a man spares his own son who serves him."
      Then you shall again discern
      Between the righteous and the wicked,
      Between one who serves God
      And one who does not serve Him.

      See you on Wednesday!

      Comment


      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        So who is Gog? I have come across three suggestions; the classic Russia, Mecca and President George Bush. Russia was thought to be Gog because they are from the uttermost north of Israel. Checking the actual scriptures in Hebrew, the word does not say Gog is from the uttermost north but comes from the north quarters in its attack on Israel. From another standpoint, Gog is the chief among those who come against Israel. Those who come against Israel for the most part (Ezekiel 38-39) are tied to the Muslim world. Mecca is their current chief. Finally, Gog is thought to be President Bush by others and any "peacekeeping plan" could likely involve an entry into Israel through the Golan thus fulfilling scripture. We have previously discussed the reasoning behind these but ask yourself now, "What country is currently acting out the part of the land of Magog?"

        Comment


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          I tell you what, although I believe that George Bush will not fulfill the role of Gog, yet, if America was on God's scratch list of those nations, on whose behalf He might have delayed the curtain-raising of the Day Of The Lord, Mr. Bush has just taken his country off that list. I hope that God can still find ten nations somewhere else, on whose behalf He might spare the world, as he would have done, had He found ten righteous persons in Sodom!

          Comment


          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            Lay it to heart:
            I think you know where I stand (sadly) on this question. I did a study some time ago on the name Gog...in certain languages it means the same as George. In Hebrew the jury is out about ancient pronunciations..some have indicated that in the past the letter gimel sounded like our j ..I could go on and mention the similarity of Gimel/Vav/Gimel (Gog) to Gimel/Resh/Gimel (George). Suffice it to say that Israelis reading their newspapers in Hebrew see this EVERY DAY in front of them, staring back. Then there was the recent Israel National Radio broadcast asking if George is Gog? (the answer yes they thought so) Apparently even GWB nick name in Skull and Bones Society was Gog. How they knew that was beyond me but that was what was broadcast..who knows, maybe there was a linguist in the Tomb with them at Yale. There is NO ONE ELSE around with a handle like Gog... oh except for somebody who was surprised by a sight in a book I once read... the author said he stood there "agog" Consider that gallows humor.

            So at this point we have George at least with a name that "works" as the leader of a vast horde fulfilling Ezekiel's prophecy. Oh I forgot to mention he happens to be the "chief" of the strongest, most powerful military nation in the history of the world that according to recent press releases spends almost as much money on its military AS THE REST OF THE WHOLE WORLD COMBINED!!!! Sorry I got a bit carried away there..it's actually only 47% of total world expenditures. Did I mention that George himself is a "war president" who is quite prepared to commit troops and equipment anywhere in the world (some would even say recklessly but let's not get into that) Maybe that is why the USA has a half dozen formerly secret military bases with equipment in Israel already.


            Perhaps I should mention that USA is the ONLY country in the world presently with major strategic "reach" and "punch" in both conventional as well as nuclear forces. Note that there is now a race on to get a missile shield in place before the emerging nuclear powers perfect their own long range missiles and decide to use them.

            A motive? How about the desperate state of oil supplies in the next few years and the need to secure the flow (not to mention the profits) well into the future. But the cover story would be implementing a new Palestinian state. George Bush wants a legacy for his term in office. The very day he was reelected Tony Blair flew in from UK to implore George to commit to settlement in the Middle East (let's get the Muslims off our collective back George) That narrows down the "window" in terms of time doesn't it?

            So how realistic is the time factor of the next few years? Well it certainly agrees with the second stage of the evacuation of settlements (Gaza being first this summer) and satisfies the arab oil barons if it moves ahead on schedule.

            MaGog as you know means simply "Land of Gog". It would be bad enough for the "coalition of the willing", the international force that joins Gog in the "deployment" into Israel -note that the Bible does NOT MENTION ANY RESISTANCE offered to Gog's arrival...except that God Almighty is upset, intervenes with the mother of all earthquakes and completely destroys Gog's army, then follows that up with sending "fire on the coastlands". Let's hope that means the arctic coasts of Russia where nobody lives, not the east and west coast of USA where 75% of Americans live.

            The Israelis have said that they consider the USA presently to be the greatest threat they face in the world. Let me say that one more time..they consider the USA presently to be the greatest threat they face in the world! The recent statements from the president about going back to 1948 armistice lines in negotiations with the Palestinians is a call for national suicide! Not to mention that the Palestinians under Abbas have done NOTHING AT ALL to stop terrorist attempts in Israel and continue to lob mortar bombs and kassam rockets into Gaza settlements.

            I think I should stop now to catch my breath! You have a name that works, a motive that works, a means that works, and a timeline that works. Do you think that the USA would allow a Russian invasion of the Middle East Oil fields without action??? Give head a big shake. The people who "protest" Gog's arrival on the Mountains of Israel (that would be the west bank) are Sheba/Dedan (modern Saudi Arabia) and the merchants of Tarshish (I believe Europe) Both smell a big SNATCH by Gog but are powerless to stop him.

            I hope you get some other scenarios/alternatives. I would love to hear some of them myself.

            PostScript: Folks sometimes it seems that we are watching a giant game of Risk played out before our eyes. Here is a fascinating link to news of the recent inauguration of a pipeline to deliver Caspian oil directly to the Mediterranean Sea. This little US backed 4 billion dollar baby will move 1 million barrels a day to privileged customers.
            http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=13478
            Last edited by HSB; 06-11-2005, 04:27 PM.

            Comment


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              Could it be that Gog is used more as a generic or say general term describing all the enemies of God, or is this case Israel?
              A Moment Gone Is Lost Forever
              A Moment In Prayer Will Last Forever

              Comment


              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                Israel was fully established in June 1967 when it regained Jerusalem. 40 years from that date ends up in June 2007, two years from now. That's the last good war time summer available for President Bush to establish his legacy. If I recall correctly he wants to establish peace before his term is up. If he really wants try it, it will require force but presidents seem hesistant to stir the pot the summer before a presidential election. My interpretation is that if he wants a shot at it it will have to be by then.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Lay it to heart: I agree that early summer 2007 is a particularly important time for the future of Israel. The 40 year period after 1967 is completed.

                  Gail: The only other person specifically named in advance in Scripture that I am aware of is Cyrus (actually Koresh= servant in Hebrew) That is why he is called God's servant when he sponsored the return of the Jews to Israel shortly after the demise of the Babylonian empire. I believe history records there actually was a king named Cyrus who did exactly what God had said in advance he would. I wonder if anyone has shown George how he might figure in prophecy. I myself tried personally, writing to John Hagee and asking that he draw this concern to the attention of the President. Dr. Hagee's staff respectifully declined. I doubt that the issue ever got to Dr. Hagee personally but I am certain he ALREADY KNOWS HOW SERIOUS THESE ISSUES ARE. Literally the fate of the USA may well hang in the balance. In thinking about the "hook in the jaw" I doubt it is a fish hook that is dangled in the water, more like the old ice hooks of yesterday that will grab Gog by the neck and drag him into judgment at some point in time.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    Could this game Bush and Sharon are playing be giving the arabs enough "rope" so that they can send fire down on the arabs at the right time?
                    certainly, imho that is G-Ds plan, to give the arabs every chance before HE (uses Bush and Sharon??? to ) destroys them.......

                    Masada will NOT fall again ......
                    Last edited by lewisb; 06-11-2005, 10:42 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      lewishb, that scenario of yours may be the way it will work out, but I think that the only thing which is driving those two men at this time is selfishness

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        Maybe indeed there has been a dumming-down of our society in general, which has led to gross ignorance, even among the higher eschelons of our government. Maybe our leaders simply do not know any better, which might be an excuse

                        Older folks may remember or have heard of a Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse, who was a great bible teacher and lecturer during the first half of the last century.

                        Because Great Britain was the greatest power at the turn of the 20th. Century, she was given the Mandate over Palestine by the League Of Nations, which extended went through to the latter years of the 1940's, when she was forced to give it up. Then, it was a truism that "The Sun never set upon the British Empire." And as a little boy, I remember singing,

                        Rule Brittania,
                        Brittania rules the waves,
                        Britons never never never, shall be slaves.

                        In gratitude to the Jewish scientist Dr. Chaim Wisemann who discovered how to synthesize basic ingredients to make explosives--and thereby helped England to win the First World War--Lord Balfour was moved to declare in the famous Balfour Declaration that "His Majesty's government looks with favor toward the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine, " or words similiar to those. But suddenly, the need for Arab oil and Moslem favor arose, and Great Britain began to renege on the commitments of the Balfour Declaration to the Jewish People; and in the late 1940's, She went so far as to actively work against letting the survivors of Hitler's ovens escape to Palestine and the creation of a Jewish State.

                        Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse declared at the time, when England began to undermine the Jewish presence in Palestine, that at that point, the beginning of the dissolution of the British Empire was initiated by the Great Watcher in Heaven. And so it was. India began the defection from the Empire, and within 20 years or so, the British Empire had practically faded from memory.

                        We have a similiar situation developing today with the American Union of 50 mighty states.

                        If Mr. Bush succeeds in leading the effort to dismember the nation of Israel, the American Union will suffer dissolution in a similiar fashion too, and for the same reason that the British Empire of yester-century dissolved.

                        Some preacher had better talk to our leaders!
                        Last edited by ZionGene; 06-12-2005, 08:52 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          I read in Haaretz that USA really seems to be muscling Israel in regard to her selling arms to China, and seems to be snubbing Israel so that Israeli officials are not having phne calls returned and US officials are with holding equipment like night vision goggles that the IDF really needs at present---not to mention the disengagement thing. The whole thing makes no sense to me. Israel is running out of friends, but she has us Zion Christians and her Kinsman Redeemer. Here is a report on Yuri Shtern's Judeo Christian Alliance Caucus an historic event in the life of the Knesset. When we pray for Israel , lets not forget to pray for the conversions of Muslims to Christ too. How awesome that Jews recognize the difference Christ makes and see His love for Israel through His followers.

                          WEbsite:
                          www.khouse.org/2004/512/

                          Middle East Update:
                          The Judeo-Christian Alliance
                          by Avi Lipkin



                          Will 2004 be the start of the Messianic Era for Jews and Christians? In January Israel's Parliament, the Knesset, came to the unprecedented conclusion that there is room for a Judeo-Christian alliance to help Israel and to offer some kind of official recognition for the tremendous efforts evangelical Christians have made to support the Jewish State and People everywhere in the world.

                          Another milestone took place on February 8th, 2004. Israeli Tourism Minister Benny Elon (National Union) asked Christian missionary groups to work to convert Muslims to Christianity in order "to show them the light."

                          "Go from mosque to mosque and bring the Muslims into the light, to those who preach murder and suicide attacks," Elon said. (I've been saying this for over ten years in Christian churches all over the world. In all three of my books, I have testimonies from former Muslim terrorists who wanted to kill Jews, but when they became Christians, they became lovers of Zion, lovers of the Jews and lovers of all mankind.)

                          Elon, an Orthodox ordained rabbi who has been Israel's Minister of Tourism in Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's government has also, during the last few years, been in the vanguard of what is now clearly becoming an international Judeo-Christian alliance for the defense of Israel.

                          These two developments are historic watershed events.

                          Knesset Members (MK) created the "Christian Allies Caucus" on January 5th, 2004, in recognition of the importance to Israel's security of the international pro-Israel Christian community. The caucus is the first of its kind in Knesset history. Its purpose is to streamline communications and coordinate activities between the Knesset and Israel's Christian allies. The caucus is also intended to increase awareness, both in Israel and the international community, of Israel's appreciation for the many and varied contributions that its Christian supporters have made to the well-being of the people of Israel in their day-to-day lives.

                          Co-chairman MK Dr. Yuri Shtern termed this a "political upgrade" of relations between Israel and its Christian supporters throughout the world. "We will not be demanding that Christians adopt any particular political viewpoint on the conflict here," said Shtern in clarifying the goals of the caucus. "We simply are reaching out to the Christians to support Israel on the basis of our fundamental right to live here in peace and security."....

                          Six other MK's comprise this caucus: Chemi Doron of Shinui, Gila Gamliel and Gilad Eran of the ruling Likud party, Gila Finkelstein of NRP, Arieh Eldan of the National Union, and Isaac Herzog of Labor.

                          The caucus MKs reflect the current make-up of the Knesset so that the views of all of Israel's citizens will be represented in the caucus' deliberations. "Israel has no better friend in the world than the United States, and that is in no small part due to our Christian friends in America, and we hope to see the same happen in Europe and elsewhere. Our shared values and beliefs, based on our common Judeo-Christian heritage, are the source of the strong ties between us, and in the post 9/11 world, our long-standing relationship has become more important than ever before," said Chairman Shtern.

                          Meantime, Gadi Golan of the Israeli Foreign Ministry's religious affairs department delivered an impassioned plea that the Israeli government across the board should stop overlooking their Christian friends and especially that they should cease "humiliating" Christians in the land with visa and tax problems. "As Israelis, we should know the terrible mistakes we have committed, and yet these beautiful people keep going on quietly with their many kind works among us," said Golan.

                          Most Christian ministries present reported progress in the processing of visas and thanked the Knesset members for their intervention with Ministry of Interior officials. Clarence Wagner, International Director of Bridges for Peace, noted that scores of Christians abroad had contacted his offices welcoming the formation of the Knesset caucus. "There was an amazing response," he said. "The phones were ringing off the hook."

                          The Knesset Christian Allies' Caucus is the outgrowth of an idea that had been brewing over recent years among Israeli lawmakers, particularly after broad segments of Christianity aligned to stop the construction of a provocative mosque next to the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth. (I wrote about this mosque extensively in my second book, Christian Revival for Israel's Survival.)

                          Representatives of the three major Christian Zionist organizations with operations offices here in Israel-Bridges for Peace, Christian Friends of Israel (CFI), and the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem (ICEJ)- were present at the caucus' inaugural meeting to discuss areas of cooperation with the caucus MKs....


                          In a statement, the caucus members said they would seek to:

                          1) Recognize and further mobilize those Christians around the world who are contributing to the security of the State of Israel and the welfare of the Jewish People.

                          2) Bring to the attention of the Israeli public the unqualified support Christians are giving to Jewish aspirations in the Land of Israel; and,

                          3) Provide Christian and Israeli leaders with a Knesset forum for face-to-face encounters and enhanced cooperation....


                          Secondly, as for Minister Elon's comments about converting Muslims to Christianity, I believe that this is the only chance the world has for peace on Earth and peace in the Middle East. Islam is a triumphalist religion that cannot rest until all other religions are abolished and the whole world is "Dar es-Salaam" (Islamic) - a sure prescription for constant war and destruction. I think that the recognition of this by Jews and Christians is a tremendous breakthrough for Israel and all of humanity. I think that the Messianic Era has now begun in earnest with this Judeo-Christian alliance.

                          * * *

                          [Avi thanks David Parsons of the International Christian Embassy of Jerusalem (ICEJ) and the Bridges for Peace organization in the preparation of this article for the March 2004 Israel Today Magazine in Jerusalem. Reprinted by permission of the author.]



                          storic first in the Knesset.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            Question:

                            Zechariah chapter 12 verse 7 The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honour of the house of David and of Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah . v8 On that day I will set out to destroy the nations that attack Jerusalem....and I will pour out on that house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will llook on me the one they pierced....And chapt 13:In the whole land ...2/3 will be cut down and perish; yet 1/3 will be left in it. This 1/3 I will bring into the fire.

                            How does Zech 12 +13 relate to our Ezek passages? ON THAT DAY refers to the great and terrible day of the LORD which is not the same time as the God Magog events right? But I like verse 7 where He says he will save the dwellings of Judah. My spirit is so disturbed when I think of Israeli faithful settlers being dragged from their home and land and have it all given over to the usurping mobs. I am going to wrestle with this tonight as I go to sleep

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              WendyJ: you will get radically different answers depending on the framework folks are using to interpret end time events. I will briefly explain my own thoughts on the subject:
                              I think we are getting very close to some major developments in the world scene. The constitution drive in Europe has stumbled but do not for a moment think that the EU is finished. The main force in Europe is ECONOMIC and that includes its relationship with Israel through the ENP (European Neighborhood Policy) about to be confirmed this fall (The Barcelona Accord) on its 10th anniversary. A big champion of this has been Javier Solana, poised to become the first Super Foreign Minister of Europe shortly. This appointment, along with a SEVEN YEAR budget cycle is scheduled to kick in January 1, 2007. Consider these developments as associated with the White Horse (first seal of Revelation).
                              The main thing America has going for it is its military prowess. Financially it is a basket case, with hemoraging of funds to foreign powers that is now a flood. Look to America to continue to wield the "big stick" to keep other countries in line with US "interests". I see America getting sucked into a Palestinian state creation in the next two years. This will involve a large peace-keeping/peace-making force being deployed to Israel which will bring on the intervention of God Himself as outlined in Ezekiel 38/39. That judgment will start on the Mountains of Israel but extend quickly to engulf the USA mainland itself. Consider these developments to be the Red Horse (second seal of Revelation)
                              The horrific consequences of the above will trigger international economic collapse, associated with the Black Horse (third seal). Then the world is ripe for the pandemics we have been warned about. That would be the Pale Horse (forth seal). Then we need a little breather!
                              The Jews will believe that they have passed the big test and God has saved them. They will be wide open to Messiah's arrival (unfortunately they will be deceived) believing that the Gog/MaGog judgment was in fact the equivalent to the Christian Armageddon (but it isn't) and that they are now free to move directly into the time of the Third Temple era as outlined in Ezekiel 40. Their rabbis will also use Zechariah 6 to claim that the horses have now completed their rides..in the case of Zechariah they pull chariots, and announce the days of Messiah are now here. Look for a man with impecible credentials, including a lineage going back to King David..yes even going back through Jesus and Mary Magdalene... thanks to the DaVinci code deception. There will be a period of world peace as this man consolidates his power and control, complete with a new Temple in Israel. The false Millennium will have arrived.
                              Things change drastically at the mid point of this seven year period, when all out war is proclaimed against the Jews. Their Temple/(at least Tabernacle) gets defiled by the Man setting himself up as god... You can follow the rest of the plot in Revelation (seals 5 through 7 with associated trumpet and bowl judgments). This ends with the Jews in a very tight spot, when they turn en masse to their rightful Lord and King Yeshua, who will deliver them completely and return to set up His glorious kingdom on earth.
                              Key points above: the Jews think they are going through a thunderstorm, at the end of which the Sun will shine on them as Messiah comes. In actual fact the thunderstorm is followed by a hurricane that destroys their picnic and almost wipes them out. It is only then that the glorious Son appears in the sky.
                              That's my brief outline of what I think is coming. Where does the rapture of the church saints fit in? Beats me, I have no idea. I cannot detect when or how this occurs. I really hope it is soon, but seriously think it will be much later. We may end up going through much of this agony in order to provide support to the Jews who will again face a holocaust. If so I pray that we will have the faith of the Corrie ten Booms who were prepared to give up their lives. In the meantime sadly look for most of the Christian churches to be totally unprepared for any of what is coming.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                We have a similiar situation developing today with the American Union of 52 mighty states.

                                I thought there were 50!

                                And so does the CIA!

                                Administrative divisions:
                                Definition Field Listing
                                50 states and 1 district*; Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia*, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

                                http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...s/us.html#Govt

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