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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Yes, Andy & Severo, speak up - Any objections to us compiling this thread into a publishable book? The profits could support the Board for quite some time - probably as long as any Admins are around to twist the dials

    Originally posted by HSB
    The whole thing is making me feel really ill . . . In my morning paper there were two full pages devoted to the Settlers . . . hoping for a miracle THAT ISN'T COMING" (my emphasis). What an incredible statement to make... it's still a bit early to tell whether God Himself will intervene or not.
    HSB -
    I think you articulate the feelings of us all. I'm still going to stick to my guns, tho, that the current astonishment we are all feeling, is indicative of our very limited perspective. Very early on, I suggested that perhaps ALL of the actions of the human players (President Bush, Condi, A. Sharon, Abbas, etc. ad infinitum, are actually engineered by God to set the stage for the continuing fulfillment of prophesy. ZionGene had a hissy-fit at that notion then, but I think I discern a certain subtle shift in his underlying premise over the past couple of months. (And ZionGene, I wouldn't/couldn't speak for you if I had too, so if I'm missing the mark, please correct me gently - ) God WILL have His way - and there is absolutely nothing that any of us can do except observe. We are, in fact, steeped in the mindset of being able to affect the outcome - we live our lives in that way. We work, we play, we plan. We eat what we want, go to and fro at will, etc. etc. etc. And these things we are witnessing are much like the grinding of tectonic plates - it happens, and there's nothing we can do except watch.

    I find it curious that your paper worries about the Settlers - recognizing that "worries" may not be the correct concept. Probably they find it interesting news - perhaps appealing to a specific subset of your population? Toronto Star, is it? Clearly they have the world-view bias that God is dead, doesn't care, or perhaps that us humans can bully Him into doing what we want.

    Too early to tell, huh? Do I detect a certain subtle shift in your underlying premise as well? Tell me it isn't so

    Lewis -
    Wouldn't it be nice if 666 would really be the end of it I could go with that!

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    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Well PlumBob, I am enjoying my morning coffee so will take this opportunity to respond to your recent post. First of all I suggest simply download this whole thread and burn it onto a CD...it's such "hot stuff" it would surely burn easily Regarding Lewis comment about 666 I suspect when we reach that little barrier we will find that 667 ...668 etc lie beyond it (echoes of the 4 minute mile barrier ...oh I love these little faces!!) OK now for some serious stuff.

      PB you indicate "ALL the actions of human players are engineered by God" That is an interesting choice of word, "engineer". I feel that an appropriate parallel might be to Pharoah and the plagues that struck Egypt. For the first few situations Pharoah had a real choice, but later in the story the Scriptures tell us "God hardened Pharoah's heart". By that point in time the whole story had been "engineered" but early on I think Pharoah had a real choice to make. Koenig and others have documented the natural disasters that have been striking the USA within hours of decisions made against Israel. Now many would laugh this off as coincidental, I disagree. I think the USA leadership is getting very close to the situation that Pharoah found himself in..simply that they will soon lose the ability to make a righteous choice (I originally wrote "sensible" choice but changed it because in a worldly perspective what is being done makes a lot of sense..look at the oil futures etc). I still hold unfortunately to my original speculation...that America will be "hooked" by God and DRAGGED into the mountains of Israel where the whole world will see what the God of Israel can do when He is annoyed. Has anyone ever thought that in Egypt a whole lot of folks suffered immensely for the sins of the leadership. Do you think that everyone who lost a firstborn child or had their sons drown in the water chasing after the Israelites was a thug and scroundrel...I don't think so!! God will have His way I am absolutely certain...in the process a lot of people who think they are under His protection will be sorely mistaken...thus I agree with Hal Lindsey's recent comments about the 3 little words.

      Now on to the newspaper article...yes it was the Toronto Star, Sunday June 5 edition. The writer Mitch Potter explains how he was pummeled by stones in Hebron on his way to meet a Palestinian family who "cling doggedly to their home in Tel Rumeida...the situation intensified last month during Passover, when thousands of settlers supporters attended the ribbon cutting of a new five storey residence across the street, built to accomodate seven more Jewish families." In fact our tour group visited that very location in Hebron a few short weeks ago. The Tel involved is the archeological dig site that has uncovered the original Israelite city of Hebron from Biblical times. The building that was just opened is a structure that was built to honour a rabbi who was murdered in Hebron by arab stabbing. His wife decided to stay on. At the time Benjamin Netanyahu was prime minister. Either he or his representative showed up in Hebron with a government check in hand to help the family. The rabbi's wife took the check and tore it up, handing it back. She said she did not want government money, rather government permission to erect a building as the legacy of her husband..a place for Jewish families to live, study and celebrate. I just wish the newspapers would tell the "rest of the story".
      The Sunday news article went on to say that with the extremist Jews (those who long for messiah) being discredited now there is a chance for a return to "sober religion".
      Last edited by HSB; 06-06-2005, 11:59 AM.

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Since I do not have any of the qualifications necessary to become the antichrist, I will take us straight through the 666th. post in this thread, if that will calm the nerves of some of you folks.

        In the meantime though, I invite you to read the article at the url below. Someone is on the edge of cursing Mr. Bush and all of us. This is getting serious.

        By the way, notice where the author of the article referred to Ezekiel 36 to underline his warning.

        http://arutzsheva.com/print.php3?what=article&id=5181
        Last edited by ZionGene; 06-07-2005, 02:29 PM.

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        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          What's really sad is that even these Jews, the ones who believe in their God, are also on the fast track to God's Wrath. When He is done, the power of even the Holy People will be shattered.

          Dan 12:7 I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.

          Just as He used Nebuchadnezzar to chastise His people, He will use the one-world ruler to do the same once again. Only this time, it will have the desired effect.

          Dan 12:10 "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            Those are 2 very powerful articles, ZG!

            I never thought America would turn its back on Israel but we are seeing it happen right before our eyes. I believe a strong delusion has taken place at the White House. We are allowing the terrorists to have their way with Israel....the terrorist we are supposed to be fighting!

            I believe it is all being orchestrated by God although I pray America will repent..... I'm not sure if we have already passed the point of no return.
            Last edited by JudyAnn; 06-07-2005, 03:14 PM.
            Psalm 63:3 Because Your lovingkindness is better than life, My lips will praise You.

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            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              lewisb.....If we thought this post would bring the rapture on.....then we would have reached it sooner than today!
              Psalm 63:3 Because Your lovingkindness is better than life, My lips will praise You.

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              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                I had to post one more time to get it past that number!!!
                Psalm 63:3 Because Your lovingkindness is better than life, My lips will praise You.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  HSB......the news article you are referring to in your last post....from the Toronto Star, Sunday June 5 edition ......did you post the url somewhere?


                  Thanks,
                  Judy
                  Psalm 63:3 Because Your lovingkindness is better than life, My lips will praise You.

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    Well, our government has chosen to embrace a serpentine entity. Stand back and witness what happens to the one who takes such a beast into his breast. Most of us here in the United States may come to envy the relative peace of Gush Katif.

                    .

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      JudyAnn,
                      I had to hope
                      maybe only the really spiritual believers have left so far

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        Well we can all breathe easier now that we are past #666

                        Seriously I read the article from Arutz Sheva and decided not to post it on this thread. It was basically calling down a curse on America for being traitors. Pretty heavy stuff. That said, ZionGene had the guts to post it. It shows the desperation and anger that some of the religious folk are feeling (sell-out may be a better term) We will see if the God of Abaraham, Isaac and Jacob decides to get involved at a personal level. I think he will eventually, just not sure about Gush Katif..certainly in time for the Mountains of Israel. The President is moving fast to the point of no return I believe. he will drag America with him into judgment I fear. The Israelis are not concerned about UN resolutions..that is simply global politics (mostly third world politics at work) But when America abandons them, nay threatens them with accomodations to the PA, then things do get serious. Time will tell and soon at that. Button down the hatches folks for the disasters that are coming.
                        JudyAnn: I simply read the articles in the Toronto Star on the weekend. Today they had one about Jerusalem day and the unhappy plight of arabs in the unified city. I will try and find a URL for you to connect with. here it is
                        http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...IDSPnFxUm%2bw8 and
                        http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...t1016110013469
                        Regards HSB
                        Last edited by HSB; 06-07-2005, 06:30 PM.

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                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          I believe that there is a End of Days scenario that has been foretold in the bible. The people that believe and choose to heed this warning are the lucky ones. Everyone else will not be so lucky.
                          My problem with the last few posts, is the perception that God is orchestrating this scenario, and not just allowing it to unfold. With the thought that we as men have choice, a gift from God, how is an orchestration a choice. I understand that God will have already seen the outcome of what we are about to go through, but I believe that the people involved are choosing their own path, not playing out a part in a movie that is already written.
                          It is hard to wrap our small minds around an idea of us having a free choice, and God already knowing the outcome of that choice. But I believe that is exactly what is happening.
                          Its like watching a Sporting event again that you taped on you VCR from last week. You already know when the team will score, but in the moment of the sporting event, all the players had the freedom of choice to decide how to act. Now you can give that tape of the game to your friend who has not seen it yet and foretell the game to him. Thats the best example I could think of to explain the bible's foretelling of the End of Days. They have already seen the VCR tape of the big game, and are explaining the tactics of the two teams. Good (Jews) Bad (Gog).
                          If you are reading Ezekiel 36, then you are getting to see a glimpse of the big game on God's VCR tape...

                          Snoopy

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            Snoopy I like your analogy to the VCR tape (although most of us have now moved on to DVDs ) I agree that people do have "free will" and are making choices for which they will be held accountable. That was basically my response to PlumBob (but I am waiting expectantly for his insightful response)
                            Pharoah had a choice for a while then God started hardening his heart. A time will come when the "current" gets too strong to buck ...in black hole terminology it is called the Swartzchild radius I recall where nothing, not even light, can escape. The flushing action will take the whole country down the pipe (not just the pike)

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                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              As I studied prophecy, I always wondered about the judgment aspect of things that were predicted. Now, we see the reasons behind a few cases, and why God's wrath will be displayed. One could say that the dire prophecies were written as the responses of God to what He knew people would do. What the nations are in for, is what they will deserve: that is becoming apparent by their actions, and they will have no reason to complain that He is unjust, when He lets loose in judgments; or to say that He is capricious. You might say that the sins of men is the cause of His judgments,whether He administers them directly or allows Satan and evil men to do so. Yet at the same time, God wil choose to treat some nations and indivuduals better than they deserve, the main ones of whom will be Israel and the Church

                              The seeming contradictions can only be completely resolved in the mind of God
                              Last edited by ZionGene; 06-07-2005, 06:32 PM.

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                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                ZionGene: when God's judgment fell on ancient Israel there were a whole lot of nice folks who got crunched in the process. We often think that a president or prime minister does not speak for us if we disagree with the decisions that are made but in fact they do..and the consequences flow to all of us. I for one am not at all looking forward to the "ride" ahead. HSB

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