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Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Joshua also covenanted with them because he believed they were from "a very far country" rather than as close as they actually were. That no doubt made a difference in his reasoning as well. Like say if Israel signed a treaty with a non-border country - has no direct bearing on the land covenant. And also, when Joshua determined the truth, he cursed them, and made them servants to the Israelites. Of course, should he have asked God first? Absolutely!

    I don't think Dayan was tricked. I just think the Temple Mount mattered nothing to him, because he was a liberal secular Jew. Reportedly, when hearing of the rabbis flocking to the Temple Mount that same day, he said "What is this vatican?" In other words, what's the big deal? But you're right, there's more to Israel than the temple site. Although its construction was to be in God's timing, and up to that point, ie the rule of David and subsequently Solomon, it's particular real estate wasn't vital to His people.

    With regard to actual words - excellent point. Over and over in scripture our mouths are called swords, Jesus told us that what goes in isn't nearly as important as what comes out, and great stress is placed upon the need for two witnesses. In addition, God covenanted with His chosen using oraldeclarations.

    Therefore, I would respectfully submit that Moshe Dayan's words did violate the covenant between God and His people by allowing a heathen presence to remain on ground that was considered to be holy. I would also submit that his successors did the same regarding the land covenant. Shimon Peres was never short on words to describe his willingness to relinquish land for peace. For example, here's a quote from Oslo time. When asked by the Knesset

    Why are you selling the state of Israel?

    he replied

    "The answer is simple: We have not given up anything that we possessed. We have recognized a reality in which some parts of the western Land of Israel were not in our possession. Gaza was not in our possession. All we have given up is something that we had not possessed in any case. The people who live in Nablus and Bethlehem are Arabs, not Jews. Why should we be their bosses or their police? We have not forfeited our historical right to the Land of Israel. History is not a matter for concessions or changes. However, it is similarly impossible to disregard a reality that has taken shape over hundreds of years. We are not the ones who partitioned the country; it was partitioned between the Jewish population and the Palestinian population. It is not the Oslo Agreement that created the map; the map created the Oslo Agreement. When we can choose is the type of partition we want - a partition effected by knives or one effected by agreements. One can build here a place of eternal strife, or, as one of our leading authors proposed, a duplex dwelling.

    - Shimon Peres, then Foreign Minister, during Questions and answers, presenting the Israeli-Palestinian Declaration of Principles to the Knesset on Oct 23, 1995

    Similarly, his predecessor Yhitzak Rabin broke the land covenant because he signed the Israeli-Palestinian Declaration of Principles, ie The Oslo Accords, which were born out of a letter exchange between himself and Yasser Arafat, and included the first point of "transfer of power to the Palestinians...in the West Bank and Gaza, so they may have control over their own affairs." He covenanted with Arafat to relinquish land that was already under covenant with God.

    Barak, once considered a hawk, sold his principles for power, imo. He once said

    "We are dutybound to turn these places surrounding us - sacred to Islam, Christianity, and Judaism - into a bridge and a symbol of freedom of access and worship, coexistence in peace... under the sovereignty of Israel."

    And as described by this article - http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...06.php?CID=367 -

    Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the house to Yasser Arafat: Israel would withdraw from 100 percent of the Gaza Strip and 97 percent of the West Bank, dismantle 63 isolated settlements, and make Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem the capital of a new Palestinian state, with the Palestinians maintaining control over their holy places and having "religious sovereignty" over the contested Temple Mount.

    Once again, breaking the land covenant with his words. It just seems to me that since 1967, the words of Israeli leadership have been contrary to God's plan; whether they involve the Temple Mount or all of the promised land is inconsequential.

    Comment


    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      agrace, you certainly do things thoroughly!

      Well, we will see the resolution of this question in the next four months, one way or the other, that's for sure.

      If from God's perspective, the rejectionist generation is behind us, then God wlll--before the so-called disengagement plan is put in place--nullify it, and cancel any further moves to keep Israel away from the fulfillment of its land promises. But if as I suspect, that Mr. Sharon has initiated a baneful page in the process of Israel possessing the land, then I expect that God will stand aside and allow Israel another painful delay, and "disengagement" will proceed.

      If the wandering generation is just beginning, then God will resist--as He did of old right after Israel accepted the majority report of the spies--any additional entry of Jews into Israel, and signal it by allowing the so-called disengagement to go through. And He will actively resist--per Ezekiel 23:34-38--any more Jewish immigration into the land for the time being. We may even see the world organizations passing resolutions to fobid any more immigration of Jews into Israel.

      If "disengagement" goes through, the world will be encouraaged to persecute Jews with a vengeance and with impunity, and at the same time, not allow them to immigrate to Israel, nor enjoy peaceful residence in their lands

      In my mind, we are about to witness a great sign from God in the next six months, of one sort or another.
      Last edited by ZionGene; 04-28-2005, 07:50 PM.

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Well, I don't know how to express a long, slow exhale on the keyboard.

        Whew......

        agrace - welcome. Your extremely thoughtful posts are very enjoyable. Did you really read the entire thread? It took 2 weeks? Mrs. PlumBob has been telling me we're very verbose, and that we all need to go to a tractor-pull or something - get a life -

        ZionGene, as always, you are extremely thought provoking. I am really glad you haven't completely left the thread.

        HSB, I trust you will see this post in the morning. Please do be very careful. We'll be praying for you. And do take time to drop us a note as you may. And tell Tamar the PlumBob said hello!

        Clearly, we will see the disposition of these matters soon enough. Completely outside the excellent theological discussions of the past 3 or 4 pages, I would simply offer that there are many other indicators that seem to be aligned or aligning as if the last days of Israel's wanderings are about to come to a close. As a single example, in 1967, as advanced as we were, we didn't have the technological capability to watch the Western Wall Web Cam. Had the two witnesses been killed and their bodies left in the streets for 3 days, the whole world would not have been able to watch - in real time. Today we sit in front of our televisions or computers, and watch, in real time, as the missiles which our "allies" have fired, fall in the land of our "enemy" - twelve time zones away!

        Whew.....

        Comment


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          Suppose for a minute! Just suppose!

          Suppose Mr. Putin is offended because both Israel and the US declined his offer to hold a peace conference on the Middleeast in Moscow? Then, suppose he offers a missile shield against Israeli air attack against Iran's nuclear facilities, in the same way he did for the city of Damascus a week or so ago!

          MY my! what a great splash that would be, if Russia suddenly becomes a "guard" for Persia in the Gog pond

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            is his middle name Gogi?

            Comment


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              as someone said a while back, mr Putin has a nice smile ......and sharp teeth
              ......and the whole world seems to be totally oblivious to what is going on, going about their lives as though tomorrow will never come. seems i've read about that somewhere

              hope everyone has seen their agent*about their eternal life policy

              (*Jesus)

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              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                Lewisb, did you notice on the newswires where Mr. Putin has promised the Palestinians helicopters.

                For some reason, Russia seems very eager to get into the Israeli/Palestinian thing, and I think that she may be conscious of the fact that America yearns to get out of Iraq at this time. She may see an opportunity to move South. And what a good time to move into the oil lands at the very moment, when the West is under great stress due to the skyrocketing price of oil

                Did not someone say something about helicopters very early in this thread? Do you think that Russia has enough of them to appear to "cover the land?" I tried to raise the article from Tass described below, but they only allow registered members to get into the site. Someone out there may know how to access it. I went into www.kolisrael.com and then clicked in on reading of the news headlines to get what I have below

                Putin promises helicopters to Palestinians ...
                SABC Apr 30 2005 2:27AM GMT
                Last edited by ZionGene; 04-30-2005, 01:15 AM.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Hello everybody. well the eaglet has landed . we are in Israel looking out over the old city as we e-chat. A black helicopter just flew over (sorry couldn't resist ) I don't think the helicopters that Russia may donate to the PA will be of ANY consequence at all. It may allow Abbas to tour more easily around Ramallah , but he will still need clearance to get to the Gaza strip (where he is not even welcome) In a shooting war I wouldn't give those PA helicopters more lifeexpectancy than about 10 seconds. Just to be on the safe side though I have moved a token worth 1 shekel (about 25 cents) to cover my options for the future. HSB coming at you from Jerusalem!

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    HSB - as both of my pilot brothers-in-law say "Any safe landing is a good landing." Glad you are on the ground. Glad to hear from you.

                    ZionGene & Lewis - I've found the following about the helicopters -

                    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L29493616.htm
                    Putin promises helicopters to Palestinians
                    29 Apr 2005 11:32:02 GMT
                    Source: Reuters
                    RAMALLAH, West Bank, April 29 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, visiting the West Bank on Friday, promised to provide helicopters to the Palestinians as they try to rebuild their security forces.

                    "We will provide the Palestinians with technological help and hardware and with training their staff. First of all we will deliver aviation technology, helicopters," Putin told a news conference.

                    Putin did not say anything about supplying armoured personnel carriers, which Palestinians had also expected. Israel had opposed the supply of the vehicles, but not of transport helicopters.
                    http://www.sabcnews.com/world/europe...103253,00.html contains the same material.
                    also http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=715508
                    and a rathr lengthy article about Russia/Syria/Israel in general http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=538433
                    also http://news940.dserv.ca/nouvelles.ph...10&id=w042981A
                    and (lastly) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1114741314921
                    Last edited by PlumBob; 04-30-2005, 08:34 PM.

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      Dearfriends: have had a wonderful few days in the Old City area of Jerusalem. Today we did the Galilee tour and had dinner in Maale Adumin (the big settlement block east of Jerusalem) I told some folks there to hang in- that we were Christians and that they had friends on our side of the ocean who were praying for them. Will be visiting the west bank setlements soon. Have 10 more days before the "group" arrives, including the Wee Baptist.
                      PS Am looking for helicopters..no luck so far. Just a few soldiers with their rifles. We feel totally safe in this country (we know safety is of the Lord, right!)

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        Thanks so much HSB for the Israel trip updates. I don't think I'll ever go to Israel this side of Glory..so it's exciting to experience Israel through others that go. ahhh the internet...what a blessing to have that instant contact and information!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          ---------------IRAN HAS SUDDENLY ACQUIRED ABILITY TO CHECKMATE AMERICA-----

                          Iran is the "Persia" of the Ezekiel 38:5 text about an invasion of Israel, and some of us have been questioning as to whether, and to what extent will America be involved in that. Well, Ms. Rice was trying to sound confident today when she said that "America is able to defend itself...."

                          Now read the articles below and see why The Secretary Of State now has cause to talk about defense. America might be forced to stand aside, if Iran, with additional Russian promise of protection, bullies America to do just that. And Iran seems to suddenly have the means, with its acquisition of EMP weapons option

                          http://www.israelnationalnews.com/pr...rticle&id=5076

                          http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/pr...TICLE_ID=44067

                          (Relative to the Electromagnetic Pulse Weapon (EMP) mentioned at about the 16th. paragraph of the second article: we know that Iran has the terrorist mind to use it. If nations anticipate that it will be used on a battle field in the future, you can see why machines guided by computers (modern tanks) will be rendered useless, and the army with flesh and blood transport (horses) could rule the day. Notice in one paragraph where it says that our soldiers could die--by such a simple thing as hunger-- on the battlefield, because their connumications would be cut off.

                          I might also add that God may now begin "stirring up the Medes and the Persians" to distract us from our forced "disengagement plan," as he once did in Daniel's day.

                          By the way: did you folks note that Mr Sharansky resigned from the government in Israel yesterday, for the specific reason that he wants nothing to do with the disengagement plan? And guess what, he has a soon- upcoming meeting with the President of The United States--who admires him so very much.

                          If we did not feel the need to set our houses in order before now: well, the time has arrived)
                          Last edited by ZionGene; 05-03-2005, 06:23 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            only have a moment to write on internet access. we have checked for hidden submarines in Dead Sea by floating out there having a wonderful time -have met some phenomenal Christians from all over the world. yesterday drove to Bethlehem through the Wall. Today we attended Yad Vashem ceremony - a friend of ours presented a wreath on behalf of the righteous gentiles (his father died at Dachau for hiding Jews in the WW2) have been all over Jerusalem and the country north and south- drove past Dimona nuke facility where the nukes are stored, etc. Monday I will be visiting the west abnk settlements like Ariel. will send note as time on internet allows- thanks for prayers. what awonderful country this is

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              Hello all...

                              Well it looks as though all is set for us to fly out of Toronto International Air Port next Wednesday. I just completed my last meeting with the Group going with us this time and we expect to be hooking up with HSB who has gone on ahead.

                              Please pray for us as we seek to bring some encouragement to our Commonwealth Of Israel Friends over there! These surely are exciting times... and it is made even more exciting as we walk the very land that we are discussing.

                              Lord willing I too will put in my Shekel now and then.

                              Shalom...

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                Today is memorial day in israel. My wife and I just got back from a drive down to Gush katif and a tour through the settlements there. Recently we visited the folks at Israel National Radio (Arutz Sheva) in BethEl. Met a fine Orthodox man there named Ezra- we drove him down to Jerusalem and when he exited the car he asked if we would pray for his wife's aunt who rercently had an operation and a difficult recovery. Would wedgies reading this thread please do that- it would be terrific if God intervened in this situation to restore the womans health. It was neat having an orthodox Jew ask us to pray (he really meant it too) Shalom

                                Comment

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