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Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    OK, so where are these horsemen? They certainly don't exist at this time, and raising any type of horse-mounted cavalry would involve at least ten years, and that is a very, very generous estimate. I do not believe that there is that much time left before these things come to pass.

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    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Dear RadioFreeNarnia

      You are provoking my thoughts to the extent that my sleep has passed from me.

      RFN, consider this point.

      The untimate author of the Ezekiel text could have easily said "iron horses," if that was what He meant. I remember too, that as a child we would press our wrinkled clothes with a "goose"--one made of iron--into which we put hot coals. So if God had said "metal horses," that would have been in terms which we could comprehend. So why did He not, if they were not flesh and blood horses?

      Now RFN, I hope that I am not on a wild goose chase here, because I am about embark on hunt in the text of the OT, to see if metallic "animals" were ever referred too, and if they were used in warfare. Then it would be easy to see how the Ezekiel 38 text might apply to tanks. And would it not be interestsing if one like the Trojan Horse is found. And if in one instance is discovered, why not be used to describe the Ezekiel 38:4 too

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        RFN: It is clear there is a difference of opinion about how Gog arrives in Israel. Some believe that the mode of transport is by horseback because the word SOOS in Hebrew is normally translated that way. But Hebrew is an incredible language, not like English. Rather it is based on root words. In this case the root word means "swift flight". It is then the context that provides direction to the translator. In addition in the original text there are no vowels present. For example let us pick the word justice. The person who brings justice is the judge, etc. Now I think God has used this language so that it can adapt to the changing times yet the message remain absolutely unchanged. In our language we cannot even understand what was written in English a few hundred years ago (try Chaucer) without great difficulty. In addition our language is "locked", a horse is a four legged animal with a tail and mane etc for all time. Yet in Hebrew what is translated horse in our bibles actually is the Hebrew root word for "swift flight". The exact same word elsewhere in Scripture is translated "crane", because the context demands that. This root word SOOS can be accurately translated "jet aircraft" today because that is what our modern context demands! It is not necessary to have Ezekiel try and describe "iron horses". In fact God's word would be flawed IMHO if such a result was found. Why? simply because a locomotive or a tank for that matter is NOT and iron horse, is it? only as a metaphor. The closest thing to an iron horse might be a bronze statue in a park. See how limiting our language is. Not so for the Hebrew! the language adapts beautifully over the centuries. So there you have it. You can wait for a few decades for a Russian horde to raise and train a whole cavalry. I suggest to you these verses can be LITERALLY fulfilled next week if a large armed force arrived swiftly in Israel, by aircraft or helicopter transport. With good fortune that will be my last word on the topic unless someone asks a question.
        Over to Kennygg question about Gog and MaGog. In my travels through Israel I have chatted with many Jews. I particularly enjoy talking with Orthodox Jews as they know and love the Scriptures as we do. Clearly, among those willing to share with me, there is a general belief that America is MaGog and the current president is Gog. there was a broadcast on Israel National Radio recently about this very topic. In addition earlier this week it was mentioned that America is now considered the greatest threat to the future of Israel (please don't shoot the messenger here folks) Do not dwell on past help that America has privided liberally to the little country- right now the PRESSURE to accomodate a Palestinian state is coming from George Bush and the US State Dept. Some Orhtodox will point to the name connection between Gog and George etc. I am saddened by all of this. I do not recall any orthodox believing that Russia is connected with this prophecy. Perhaps at one point in time that was an option. The secular Jews haven't even heard of Gog or MaGog!

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        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          Thanks HSB for your feedback and info to my question.I have been chewing on the idea of George (Gog) USA (Magog) ever since this thread was created,and I am open to any facts one way or another,and at this point I think it is quite possible.

          kennygg

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            Keep an open eye and mind here. We may see bombs launched from Russia and maybe Iran simultaneously at the United States and Israel.

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            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              This is starting to get interesting..... The most interesting is where the highest concentration of horses are today in the world. The U.S is a obvious target, but their numbers are about 6-7 million. Europe is another hot bed, with about 5-6 million, but the scary number is where the largest number is concentrated. In a country that just recently moved into second place for the fight in the world's oil market. You guessed it. CHINA. Has about 12-14 million horses. Thats 2 times the US and Europe put together. If there was ever a case for an invading horde on horse back.....this is where it would most likely be coming from. The fact that they are in such a high demand for oil as well, just adds fuel to the fire.
              Interesting how this might change some views on where the enemies of Israel will come from.

              Snoopy

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              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                I agree totally with SoulHarvest- we need to keep an open mind to a whole range of possibilities. Note to kennygg: I am in the same boat as you. I think it is "quite possible". If the pressure mounts on Israel and you see any major deployment of troops "in theater" as they say, it will become more of a certainty in my mind. Recently I suggested Mesheck and Tubal can also mean "possessions" and "perversions". PlumBob said that narrowed the field to about 12 possible countries. I have been reflecting on that. I doubt that would include the Chinese at this point in time or even the Russians for that matter. Personally I think that the Europeans will fill the vacuum that America leaves behind (I take absolutely NO pleasure in saying that). Their turn for judgment will come soon enough. For that matter so will that for the Chinese. I think they are a big part of the kings of the East who march westward in large numbers. (for two reasons- one is for oil which will only be available to those who control the Middle East, secondly because their one child policy will have resulted in an inbalance of males to females of many millions of extra males reaching marriagable age) Dress them up in military uniforms and send them westward makes sense to me, before they rip the country apart.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  ZionGene: I agree that it looks like Iran is in the bad books at this point in time. Two things to remember. First that things can change VERY quickly. Perhaps Iran slows down their rush to nuclear bomb possession in order to keep trade with Europe open for the future. Or perhaps the Palestinians insist on Iran providing some token military force to a coalition sent to Israel to implement a peace deal. I was amazed in the past how America was able to cobble together such strange bedfellows into what appeared to be common interest (e.g. first Gulf war as well as the second) players that likely would have shot at each other if they met in a dark alley were all playing along to gain glory..of course America did all the heavy lifting as it always does!!!
                  I do not think that there would be a pause of ore than 30 seconds duration if Iranian participation was required.

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    Hey guys, here's a thought about paw-ra-shim, coming from a horse"woman" -

                    "I will sing unto the Lord for He has triumphed gloriously, the horse and rider thrown into the sea."

                    If the word can be translated rider then it could be a rider of anything. What has to be decided is whether the vehicle is truly a horse or any other possibility. There are lots of things to ride that make you a rider by default. If it's true that "soos" can be translated "crane" or "swift flight" then the whole picture becomes completely different. The words could then be translated "swift-flighted riders" which has nothing to do with horses as we know them at all.

                    What say you?

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      SandyLion: exactly. Coming from a horsewoman makes a lot of horse-sense PS That is a mighty fine looking horse in your icon SandyLion.

                      PS to Snoopy: where did you get your horse facts?

                      I love horsing around.

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        I got my horse facts from the internet of course. Suspect as some sites may be, most tended to lean to the same conclusions I posted above.

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                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          The "Snoopy" key says, "...it will make sense when we see it," and the Daniel's inspired foundation for that concept is found in Daniel 12:8-10, where it says :

                          "I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And He said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end....and the wise shall understand."

                          To me, the truth that both of these statements convey, is that as we come closer to the unfolding of biblical prophetic predictions, that nearly all of the folks in Christ (those made wise through Him alone, after being born again) will agree on the general outlines of such an event as the Gog invasion,-- and many others beside. The fact that there is not this concensus now, tells me that we are not near to the Gog invasion at this time

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            I think the phrase....."...and the wise shall understand." is taking for granted that we are the wise ones...

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                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              Snoopy, only those who have come to know Christ, have an elevated knowledge of God's words and works today

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                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                ZionGene, is it possible, that the words of the scripture were written in a way, that would give hope, in any time, so we would not need to worry even when the signs were supposedly happening. As Daniel in his day was told ...for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end...we too can should listen to this statement. When the end of days start to unfold I am sure it will be very easy to understand what is happening. The real question here is...Are the things explained in this thread easy for followers of Christ to see as the End of Days, or are we reading into things, as so many have done for thousands of years...

                                Snoopy

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