No announcement yet.

Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

This topic is closed.
This is a sticky topic.
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    I thought to relate to the kind of action as it applies to the approach and arrival of Gog upon the Land Of Israel, in Exekiel chapter 38.

    First of all, I will quote the Ezekiel text, then include all the rest of them in the biblel text where the original language says, "you will go up," (or "come up" in some English translations) There are only five of them. It is pronounced "a-li-ta, " which is akin to "aliyah," both of which derive from the root "alah." You may remember than al "aliyah" is generally used to describe the action of worshippers going up to worship at Jerusalem, and the process of Jews immigrating to Israel.

    You may want to judge for yourself the degree of suddenness that the verb may convey in each case.

    Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

    Exodus 19:24 And the LORD said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest he break forth upon them.

    Exodus 34:2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.

    Deuteronomy 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;

    Ezekiell 38:9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.



    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      ZG: good to hear from you. I was very interested in the comment that Gog will make "alita" to the place the Jews have made "aliya". Seems that God has an appointment with Gog on the mountains of israel. I am keen to hear your take on the means of arrival. As I recall you didn't agree with my comments about "swift flight" a la crane (perhaps todays jet aircraft or troop helicopters). Do you expect to see Gog and his coalition (horde) arrive on horseback?
      Last edited by HSB; 03-22-2005, 04:51 AM.


      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Specifically, "alita" is the second person (you) form of the verb root "alah." It is a verb, not a noun. It is not saying you will make an alita, but you will go up. It is found five times in scripture in that exact "alita" form. Aliyah is a noun.

        As far as horses or cranes go, my objection to cranes being applied in the text, may be seen in any English translation of the text, which connects it to horsemen. Horsemen do not ride cranes, and I can not think of any military means of transportation today which can reasonably be called cranes or likened to them. It is easy to see how the piece of construction equipment which we liken to the crane bird came to be so named, because of the length and agility of its neck. I cannot see how that figure can be transferred to military means of transporting troops, or horsemen.

        May I also make a comment about hook or hooks. The hook is that which God applies to Gog. It is not the bait, which the text seems to say consists of booty. It appears to me that the two are being confused


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          Hello all...

          I have been reading this thread for the past few weeks trying to get caught up on what everyone is speculating about for the coming "End of Days" scenario's. There are some interesting points made and some examples given here that are hard to ignore.
          I am in no way an expert on the topic, or by any stretch of the imagination a hardcore theologian. Consider me the lay opinion of the thread, a young Christian with many questions and proposals. That being said I have some interesting ideas that I would like your (everyone here) opinion's about.

          HSB has many times in this thread mentioned that there will be an International Force “show up” in Israel to do the work of Gog. Don the Baptist has mentioned that 2/3rds of the world's Jews will be put through the “wine press” and not survive. Are these two examples part of the same event? It is hard to imagine a scenario where Millions of Jews will be killed without there being some sort of major war or tyrant killing spree. IMHO it will have to be more than a relocation of settlers to cause that much bloodshed.

          Next I have an interesting parallel. All the ancient advanced society's Egyptian, Aztec, Inca all have their calendars running out around 2013. An interesting coincidence or did they know something that we don't. Is there a way that they too were foretold the “End of Days” scenarios that we are trying to decipher right now, and if so, who told them?

          Thanks for the great reading. Look forward to hearing your thoughts.



          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            The article below is so poignant, and since it did not forbid copying, I publish the whole article below, and highlight certain sections. It is heartwarming to know that others believe that God will raise His hand to stop this wickedness planned against Israelis today.

            Does anyone out there know how to contact the author of this article?


            Provocative Commentary
            Israel: For this we want to commit
            suicide? - Jan Willem van der Hoeven

            For not even a proper ceasefire Israel is willing to commit suicide and bring herself to the brink of civil war, while Israel’s enemies will exploit this lull in the fighting and the subsequent Israeli withdrawal from Gaza to establish there a bastion of deadly terror.

            To tear the nation cruelly apart by decreeing that Jews cannot live in peace where Arabs form a majority. They have to leave their own G-d given land torn from their houses so that Gaza and other parts of the ancient homeland of the Jews can be made ‘Judenrein’, that is totally free of Jews. Israeli Jews cannot even any more visit Jericho after it for the so maniest time has been given over to Palestinian control. The city has to be made free of Jews – not even a visit of them is allowed. That’s the extent of the peace the Muslim Arab world seeks with the Jews. The Israelis have to get out of every area they claim for themselves, in contrast to Israel who has to learn to live with over 1 million Israeli Arabs, many of whose loyalties increasingly make them side with the enemies of their own Jewish State, even so far as giving help to those who plant bombs or are willing to become bombs themselves.

            So what if Mr. Bush or Tony Blair were to be told that they were to evacuate their own homes to make place for those who have mutilated or murdered their offspring like the Cohen family in Gush Katif who after a terrorist attack on the school-bus have now 3 of their children maimed for life without some of their limbs? Would President Bush or Tony Blair give their houses to people that perpetrate such things?

            David Hatuel who had his wife and five children slain, literally shot to pieces by such terrorists now has to evacuate his carefully built home to those who rejoiced at the murder of his wife and all his children?

            It is truly unthinkable! And an Israeli government that will force this solution upon some of her finest people, many of them G-d fearing people, will bear the consequences of this terrible inhumane and cruel act! An act that will not even lead to a semblance of peace but to the very opposite as Carolyn Glick so rightly wrote in Friday’s Jerusalem Post column, frighteningly true: On Wednesday, Abbas went a step further. He told the terror masters who are now based in Damascus that after the exit of Israeli forces and civilians from Gaza and the transfer of control over the international border with Egypt to the PLO, they would all be invited to move their headquarters to the Gaza Strip. That is, Abbas said that in the aftermath of the implementation of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to forcibly expel 8,000 Jews from their homes and end all IDF counterterror operations inside Gaza, Abbas will respond by transforming it into a base for global terrorism. In the same Jerusalem Post article she writes: In their discussions in Cairo, the various terror chieftains have been employing the explicit vocabulary of jihad to describe their various positions. Reportedly on Thursday, Islamic Jihad and Hamas accepted the idea of a "thahadiya" or a temporary cessation of attacks for a defined time period. In jihad rhetoric, the purpose of a "thahadiya" is to regroup to enable the forces of jihad to fight their infidel enemy more successfully in the next round. Jews and Christians have been praying and crying out to G-d to prevent this all last Thursday the 17th of March and will do so again next Thursday the 24th of March from sunset to sundown – also in solidarity with these courageous people of Israel. I believe, as I have written before, that G-d in his justice and great mercy will find a way to stop this folly, a mainly unilateral evacuation which will not even lead to a semblance of peace!

            His answer however may be swift and terrifying for those who failed to hear the pleadings of their G-d and the cries and sufferings of their own brethren.

            Jan Willem van der Hoeven, Director International Christian Zionist Center


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              The article below makes us Christians shame, or it should. The Jerusalem Post did not forbid the copying of the article, and so I print it below. Please read on or two paragraphs which I highlghted. The name of the article is "Calling All Christians."


              Calling all Christians

              Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Mar. 15, 2005

              Is George W. Bush missing a couple of pages from his Bible? In a speech last week at the National Defense University, the president repeated what has become one of his primary foreign policy mantras.

              Asserting that the only way to bring about tranquility in the Middle East is through the establishment of a Palestinian state, Bush said, "We seek two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side-by-side in peace and security."

              In addition, Bush insisted that Israel must "freeze settlement activity" and "ensure that a new Palestinian state is truly viable, with contiguous territory on the West Bank," meaning that he expects the Jewish state to withdraw not only from Gaza and northern Samaria, but from large chunks of the rest of the territories as well.

              The president's statement, of course, is nothing new. It is a theme he has harped on for the past few years, laying down his conviction that the Land of Israel should be partitioned between Arabs and Jews.

              But what is truly remarkable, and as yet inexplicable, is that a man so committed to his Christian faith and to belief in the Bible could possibly be unaware of the inherent contradiction in his policy toward the region.

              Indeed, how is it that the most devoted Christian to sit in the White House in decades is the same person pressing to divide God's Holy Land, the very same land promised exclusively to the Jewish people by Divine right?

              Now, I am neither a theologian nor a Christian, but I do know that the words "Palestine" and "Palestinians" do not appear anywhere in the New Testament. So Bush could not have gotten the idea to establish "Palestine" while attending Sunday school. Did he not learn that Jesus was a Jew who, like the Jews who today are called "settlers," lived in land given by God to the Jews, the same land in which he would now create a hostile Palestinian state?

              To be fair, Bush has been a great friend of Israel, deflecting international criticism over the Jewish state's efforts to defend itself while pushing to reform and democratize some of our nasty neighbors.

              Nonetheless, his insistence on pressing for the establishment of a Palestinian state remains baffling, if not incomprehensible, as it would appear to conflict with both his religious and his ideological worldviews.

              Even in terms of the war on terror, Bush's stance on the Middle East is laden with inconsistency. In that same National Defense University speech last week, Bush said, "The theory here is straightforward: Terrorists are less likely to endanger our security if they are worried about their own security. When terrorists spend their days struggling to avoid death or capture, they are less capable of arming and training to commit new attacks. We will keep the terrorists on the run, until they have nowhere left to hide."

              And yet, when it comes to the Palestinians, that is precisely the opposite of Bush's policy, as the creation of a Palestinian state would inevitably give terrorist groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad a perfect place "to hide."

              In light of the president's position, as well as his religious beliefs, there is one group in particular that should seize the moment now and come out against the current drive toward Israeli withdrawal and retreat: American Christians.

              As the core group of Bush's Republican constituency, and as a growing factor to be reckoned with on the American political stage, evangelical Christians have the clout, the numbers and the conviction to help forestall the creation of "Palestine."

              Efforts by Bush and by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to carve up the Holy Land and turn over parts of it to the Arabs should offend anyone who takes the Bible seriously, including evangelicals. To stand by and watch this process unfold without speaking out is simply unthinkable.

              There are three things – the three P's – that US Christians can and should do to make their voices heard: protest, pressure and pray. They shouldn't wait for a divided American Jewry to take the lead, because time is of the essence, as the planned withdrawal from Gaza is just four months away.

              Hence, there is no reason why American Christians can't start taking to the streets to organize rallies and protests under the banner of "Don't Divide the Holy Land." What a powerful message it would send to decision-makers in Washington and Jerusalem to see hundreds of thousands or even millions of non-Jewish Americans speaking out on this important issue.

              US Christians can also apply pressure on their elected representatives. Next Thursday, March 24, when Jews mark the Fast of Esther, a grassroots effort is being planned to get as many American Jews and Christians as possible to phone, fax and e-mail the White House, with the central theme being "President Bush: Honor God's covenant with His people. Stop Disengagement."

              Lastly, it is time for Jews and Christians to pull out the most potent weapon in their arsenal, the power of prayer. The Land of Israel is in danger, and there can be no better way to influence events than by turning in prayer to the One who guides all human events.

              There is still time to act, to make a difference. American Christians have been put in a unique position, one in which they can have a direct impact on the future of Israel and its land. At this critical hour, when the integrity of the Holy Land is at stake, they cannot and must not be silent.

              (The writer served as an aide to former prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu.)


              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                I guess I am just not a very good Christian, or I don't love the Jews enough, or I don't understand the promises of God to Abraham enough etc etc. But as far as I can see, until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, Israel is going to go through trial after trial after trial. She was dispersed and persecuted for centuries and the land was passed from Gentile hand to gentile hand. Yes those people who did it to her will be judged, but it was God who is punishing Israel for her sin against Him. What is happening now is no different simply because some of the people are back in the land as a fulfillment of scripture. It is only the dry bones of Ezekiel that we see at this point, not the flesh and blood.

                If God uses the US, the UN, Russia to push Israel around a little bit more before He finally sends Michael to stand up for the People, what makes everyone think that God will immediately smack the world for doing it? (Particularly, why are Americans so afraid of (perhaps) being the stick in God's hand to deal with Israel since the Bible says it must be so until the time of the end?) The world has been pushing the Jews around for centuries and it will continue until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled and He turns his face to Israel once more.

                Don't forget that God used Nebuchadnezzar to smack Israel, but also God loved him. Why is it hard to imagine George Bush being used to carry out God's purposes for Israel and still be beloved of God?

                Dispensational teaching is no longer in vogue, but that doesn't mean it is not the right view.

                Sorry if this is confusing to you all. I am just really curious as to why so many christians are in such a panic about Israel being carved up one more time and why everyone thinks George Bush must be the anti-christ if he lets it happen. I really believe that until God sets His face to deal with Israel again, there will be stuff like this happening and we will have to watch it. But we should simply watch what God does, and not freak out or feel like we need to meddle in His affairs with her. Love the people, yes, pray for the peace of Jerusalem, yes, but don't get your shirt in a knot if she gets carved up one more time. God is still on the throne and seems to know what He's doing in the world, and especially with His chosen race.

                We should all go read Daniel again. It might help us to rest at ease and trust God to do all that He has ordained to do.

                Sorry everyone, just kind of frustrated


                • Re: SandyLion

                  THANK YOU!!! I feel so much in the minority when I consider that the people of Israel are idolators right now. They don't worship the true God. They worship idols of gold and silver (money, fancy cars, etc) just like so many in the US. As such judgment WILL happen.

                  I'm not saying if I were President I'd be doing what Mr. Bush is doing. But what if, and I do mean WHAT IF, he knows his Bible REAL well and KNOWS these things MUST COME TO PASS before our true Lord can return? Would he not be actually helping to spur things on toward the end times and return of Jesus Christ to rule the earth?


                  • Re: SandyLion

                    Originally posted by Andy
                    I'm not saying if I were President I'd be doing what Mr. Bush is doing. But what if, and I do mean WHAT IF, he knows his Bible REAL well and KNOWS these things MUST COME TO PASS before our true Lord can return? Would he not be actually helping to spur things on toward the end times and return of Jesus Christ to rule the earth?
                    Isn't that exactly what many of his critics on the left have accused him of already? Even if it were true, I don't believe that it is within the power of man to change the Sovereign Lord's timetable by even the blink of an eye.


                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      I agree with Andy regarding the population of Israel. It is a secular state and most of them have no idea what is happening... Only the Orthodox Jews seem aware... The rest just want peace at any cost...


                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        Dear Sandylion

                        You make points which certainly are biblical and cannot be denied. This whole subject of what Christians’ attitude toward Israel should be is a hard nut to crack. One side of this bitter coin, is the fact that the rise–-and especially the fall-–of nations have been predicated upon their treatment of the Jews, in the predeterminate counsel of God. And Sandylion, you brought up the case of Nebuchadnezzar.

                        I remember that at the very point where Babylon authorities threw their greatest insult at the Jews and their “solemnities”-- at the feast of Beltchazzar--that it was in that very night that Babylon ceased to be top- dog-–never to rise again.

                        I learned that Alexander the Great took the Grecian Empire to its highest heights after he spared Jerusalem at the request and the inspiration of the Jewish High Priest. When I was in college I remember writing a paper on the rise of the Roman Empire, when the Romans initially began to show kindness toward the Jews, just to be contrary to the meanness the Greeks had began to show them. But then, the Romans quickly began to backslide.

                        And there are some relatively recent cases in point.

                        Since 1492 and the expulsion of Jews from Spain, that nation has not been restored to not even second place-- much less first place--among the nations.

                        I also heard someone say that the pre-World War II high culture of Germany, has definitely been diminished and taken a downturn, since the 1940's, and the Holocaust.

                        Then there is Britain! After she reneged on her commitments to the Jews in the Balfour Declaration, and actively worked to lessen the chances of the Jews winning in the 1948 War Of Independence, the dissolution of the British Empire began apace. It got going with the loss of India; and eventually, England had to eat Her boast that “the sun never set on the British

                        Then here in America, the contribution of Jews to the culture wealth and ascendancy of these United States, goes way beyond what would be expected of a such a small minority of people. And whereas the America has not been perfect in her dealings with the Jews, she has done better by them than any other nation since 1776. And if God appoints-–or allows–-America to bitterly discipline Israel today, I would say that indeed He has begun to appointed America to wrath--which would also tell me that He now regards America as a "degenerate" rod.

                        And on the personal and interchurch level, during these Times Of The Gentiles, when most nations and cultures have been very mean toward the Jews--which in itself has to be a fulfillment of scripture--there has been a small minority of Christians, and even Moslems at times, who have demonstrated the mercy and love of God to His People, and have been strangely moved to do so. And "in the midst of a wrath", which mainly ungodly Gentiles have meted out to the Jewish People, God has “remembered mercy” to many of them, through this strange minority of non-Jews. Both groups have been fulfilling the will of God in a mysterious way.

                        When I think of Corrie Ten Boom and many like her-–such as many folks on this board--I can only say that God has called some people to be ministers of his grace, and some to be ministers of His wrath. But I have noticed that instruments of God’s wrath–-except when God used Israel for that purpose in the OT–-were “rods” which God would throw away no sooner than He had
                        used them on Israel

                        Sandylion, there is a new angle in all this which I am beginning to appreciate.

                        Suppose that in the providence of God, He will only show special mercy and favor to Israel, when some gracious merciful intercessor, or intercessors, come along and implore Him to do so? Remember that this is how it was with Daniel, for although he knew that the Babylonian Captivity would last 70 years, yet he realized that some human agent would actually have to pray
                        it into fact, so to speak. I compare his time to the period 2000 years ago, just before the Savior came. For it appears that a human intercessors–-Simeon and Anna in this case-- had to pray it into fact, although it was the will of God. That is exactly how it was, and it simply seems to be the way God works. I quote Ezekiel 33:25-31 below where it seems to indicate as much. Notice how evil the nation had become!

                        "There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. 26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. 27 Her
                        princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. 28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken. 29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. 30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. 31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD".

                        And so Sandylion, if indeed the Jewish People have cut the connection between themselves and the Only High Priest who stands at the right hand of God, and if we, who have benefitted through the fall of the Jews, to the extent that we do have that connection through that Mediator-Jesus, then maybe we should take up our Jewish friends in our lips in prayer, as you say, and do for them what they do not do for themselves, "...that through your mercy they alos may obtain." Romans 11:31


                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          Thank you for responding to my rather opposing post, Zion Gene. I don't mean to oppose, but it may have sounded that way to some. I realise you did not take it that way, however, and this is good.

                          It seems good to me to love the Jewish people because God told us to do so. It also is good to pray for their salvation when their eyes become fully opened, whenever God sees fit to open them. We once had a strange Israeli friend whom nobody liked, but we befriended simply because he was a son of Abraham. Too bad he was unable to control his "unacceptable" feelings for me, a married woman, and we had to break off our communication with him simply for my protection. But we cared for him and his son, and prayed for him regularly. I know that God honored our friendship with him in spite of his disagreeableness.

                          The world will one day face the wrath of God for it's own sin, and particularly for it's treatment of His own people. America, I am sad to say, will be punished for her own sins, just as the rest of the world. There will be no country in the world that is not punished, but there will be sheep and goats who will be separated according to how they treated Israel. Since there are sheep listed, I assume there will be at least two who will be counted against all those who are called goats. Who are they? I guess we will see. But does it matter to us, who are the called according to His purpose in Christ Jesus? I don't believe so, since being a citizen of Heaven overarches my earthly citizenship and will be the only one that counts. All I am required to do is love the Lord my God with all my heart and soul and mind and strength, and love my neighbor (Israeli's too) as myself.

                          I suppose that is why I don't feel responsible for what the leaders of the world do to Israel. That's up to God.


                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            Originally posted by Snoopy
                            I am in no way an expert on the topic, or by any stretch of the imagination a hardcore theologian.
                            WELCOME, Snoopy! Thanks for jumping in w/ your 2 shekels worth! I'm not a hardcore theologian, either.
                            consider me a lay opinion of the thread, a young Christian . . .
                            Me too (lay opinion), me not (young)

                            Next I have an interesting parallel. All the ancient advanced society's Egyptian, Aztec, Inca all have their calendars running out around 2013.
                            Now that's interesting. I didn't know that. You're going to be real handy in this thread! Welcome!

                            Originally posted by Andy
                            I'm not saying if I were President I'd be doing what Mr. Bush is doing. But what if, and I do mean WHAT IF, he knows his Bible REAL well and KNOWS these things MUST COME TO PASS before our true Lord can return? Would he not be actually helping to spur things on toward the end times and return of Jesus Christ to rule the earth?
                            Oh, Andy, I don't think there is any way we can argue anything else. Like it or not, GWB is an instrument in this process. To me, the whole conversation has boiled down to "Is this just another time of trouble for the Jews, or do all the other things that we see happening along with this, portend that the End of Days is staring us in the teeth." And the truth is, it really wouldn't make a hill of beans difference whether GWB knows his Bible well or not. Now wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if in reality he DOES know EXACTLY what he is doing, and is doing it under some Divine Direction that the rest of us don't have a clue about....

                            ZionGene - I'm glad you're back!!!!


                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              No one cannot honestly–and safely-- proceed with an act which he or she knows has been previously declared by God to be immoral, and then turn around and say that God “made me do it,” or “I am pleasing Him by so doing,” or even, “I am helping to move the prophetic clock along by so
                              doing.” Someone else might inspire a person do such a thing, but it sure ain’t God! God is not divided, and does not contradict Himself like that

                              Mr. Sharon has broken his word to his people -–apparently at the result of the American administration’s pressure--more than once, and one has only to read of the commitment made by Joshua to the Gibeonites--and the subsequent breaking of that promise by an Israeli leader (Saul the King) hundreds of years later--to know that God unequivocably does not lead a man to do such a thing, and that He furiously reacts to such a course of action.

                              Before a leader of the United States goes so deep as to determine his position in the prophetic scheme of things, he should open his book on the primer in the abc’s (it ain’t that deep!) of truth, and remind himself that what is being proposed to be done to Israel today, is wrong and un-godly, and will merit extreme retribution by God upon this nation. I sure hope and pray that Mr.George Bush is not justifying his Two State Solution with that rationale. Let us not forget that, it was that man in Germany sixty years ago, who said that the world would thank him for applying bloody pressure to the Jews, and who became so theological about his slaughter of babies and old folk, that he said that he was “only” fulfilling the spirit of Martin Luther’s diatribes against the House Of Israel, by sending them up the chimney. What Mr. Bush is getting himself involved may get out of hand, and take him and his nation further down, than he ever dreamed he could go

                              What Mr. Bush and “The International Community” are planning to do is patently immoral and evil, and of a double standard. Therefore, if Mr. Bush–or anybody else for that matter–is justifying abusing Israelis with that rational, I would say, “Okay, it is true that somebody will be used to discipline Israel using ungodly and unjust means, but–-and as Christ said to another guy
                              in a similar temptation to do evil--“Offence must come, but woe unto that man (and nation in this case) by whom the offence cometh.”


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                ZionGene... I'm so very glad to see that we didn't loose you... We are all glad to see you back and see your insightful views...

                                A Federal US Judge has just refused to order the feeding tube to be reinserted to keep Terri Schiavo alive! If the Federal Government allows the Florida State Government to put Terri to death through dehydration and starvation, the legal precedent will have been set which will allow Federal and State governments throughout this entire land to put people to death who are in similar circumstances.

                                This slippery path is the one down which Adolf Hitler took Germany from 1933-38. The planned Holocaust in this country may now be getting underway. If it isn't a Holocaust coming it certainly is the Hunters of Jeremiah getting ready to drive His People home.

                                I agree with everything in your last post, and might add that the concept of SPEAKING God's Will into existence is very fundamentally the very Nature of God Himself. I believe that God's will [Will] is Spoken by the Son [Word] that in turn releases the Spirit to make it reality [Work]... God wills... Son Expresses... Spirit makes it happen.

                                We pray every day... Thy WILL be DONE on Earth as it is in Heaven. When I became a Member [adopted into] of God's Family, I was Baptized into Him [The Son]... Romans 8:1 ... to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Now the Son is the Expression of the Father's Will... we call Him THE WORD! AH! But we are His Body on Earth... ergo... The Father's WILL can be DONE on Earth... IF we who are the extension of the Expression do in fact express... thereby freeing the Spirit to DO IT! "Wow".... I honestly believe that we can become aware of the Father's Will for these People and this Land that we are currently discussing!

                                Join me in EXPRESSING the Father's WILL [Do we know what His Will is for this part of His Vineyard?] thereby releasing the Spirit to DO IT. Then rejoice as we see it come to pass... Who's along for the ride?

                                ZionGene... I agree wholehearedly with every word of your last post... Simply inspired!!! I might add... worth sending to George himself!!!
                                Last edited by Don Brooks; 03-22-2005, 10:43 PM.