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Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

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  • Doug Fowler
    replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    All I know is, our pastor has been preaching through the Book of Revelation (just did a message on Chapter 10 last Sunday) and preached in it yesterday to continue the continuity of the messages as we've seen it interrupted a few times since eht start this year. That's right, continued the REvelation series even though it ws Father's Day and you'd expect a traditional Father's Day message.

    THe Spirit knows something's up. And the good servant (and he's an excellent one) simply submits to His will.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Originally posted by Don Brooks
    I think that the 'fat' lady is getting ready to sing the 'Rapture Chorus'
    My Goodness, DtB. So you are staking that as a position? I asked "When does the rapture fit in all this?" once, and nobody was willing to say.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    And now my friends we go full circle... IMO as soon as this malformed infant arrives... Egypt will come after what Egypt once Owned! Jordan will come after what Jordan once Owned! Syra will come after what Syria once Owned! That is "if" God allows the establishment of such a MalFormed Tyke!

    I think that the 'fat' lady is getting ready to sing the 'Rapture Chorus' to be followed immediately by 'Jacob's Troubles' and the Final Curton!!! Last Act! Shows over! A millenium later The Encore Too is Over! WE WON!

    Let me repeat! WE WON!


    My goodness friends... there is little or no time left! How does one tell his Church! his Friends! his Relatives! his Neighbours! ANYBODY! Who out there is paying attention?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Originally posted by HSB
    A fair question ZionGene. This whole situation of nationhood is such a sad sorry tragedy. At what point in time have the arabs who live in the area actually expressed a desire to form a sovereign state?...
    It's simply beyond belief that this group of people actually believe they can form a nation - without any of the trappings "nation-ism." No output of goods and services to speak of. No effective organized military. No central monetary system. Etc. etc. etc ad infinitum.
    Not only will the Quartet plan the delivery but somehow will provide the baby as well!
    And a malformed, and non-viable baby it will be. It will not long survive, I imagine. Only about as long as it takes Michael the Arkangel to get down here w/ his Legion.

    Even if God tarries, it won't live w/o intensive care and life support.
    Last edited by PlumBob; 06-19-2005, 02:16 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Therefore, if God is the One who establishes states, and the scriptures which He dictated say that He has given the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River (plus) to the seed of Jacob, THEREFORE, there will never be a state established in the territory in that area, otherwise than the nation of Israel. And whoever objects to that may go up to God's throne and evict Him, and give Him a good spanking. Or better still, go off and make his or her own universe,

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    A fair question ZionGene. This whole situation of nationhood is such a sad sorry tragedy. At what point in time have the arabs who live in the area actually expressed a desire to form a sovereign state?...oh they have expressed a lot of desire to destroy the sovereign state of Israel but help me with some references to yearnings for their own statehood. They simply do not exist to my knowledge. What DOES exist is enormous pressure from the USA and EU for a Palestinian state in the area. Not only will the Quartet plan the delivery but somehow will provide the baby as well!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    The following scripture and its implications coursed through my mind today, as I thought of America's and the world's efforts to establish a Palestinian state

     Psalm 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

    I believe that this text applies to the establishment of cities and states and nations in particular, and I would like some history buff to prove me wrong on this point. I do not want to run with it, if it is a faulty concept

    I believe that every city or state or nation in the world that was ever founded, was done so with goodwill in the hearts of the founder or founders, at the time of its founding. I would like to know if there was ever an exception to this rule, where a city or nation came to brith, with the declared purpose of destroying another nation or city or state.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Youngster at 36? Jesus got His salvation project going at about 30, and finished the job and wrapped it all up 33. That should be a pattern if ever there was one.

    They tell me that at 70 one should be ready to see His Maker, which makes 35 well seasoned middle age.

    I wish and pray that Doug would get on with his life's work, and put in a full 40 years of great service if the Lord tarries, and do better than me. I wasted more years than Doug has been in this world

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Doug- 1969 birthdate? you sure sound mature for such a youngster
    I liked your analogy to the Jews being "grounded". Unfortunately they are about to lose their "ground"

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Originally posted by HSB
    Looks like the Golani Brigade are refusing to cooperate with evacuations. At some point in time there will be a need to involve outside military to get a Palestinian state going- the IDF simply won't do the dirty work!...
    I looked up the Golani Brigade. Here is one source:
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...i_brigade.html

    They appear to be named after the Golan but they have served all over. These guys are intense. In one battle "some soldiers flattened the barbed wire coils by lying down on the wire, thus allowing their colleagues to step on them and proceed into the fort." Ouch!

    There is a tie between Galilee, the Golan and the coming peacekeepers who will be buried east of Galilee.

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  • Doug Fowler
    replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Zion Gene, good points about Israel's PM, he has clearly been like King Saul.

    HSB, I had been wondering, being born in 1969, just what might have gone on in bygone days; I only think of terrorism as beginning int he 1970s really, or had thought of it that way, anyway. It is great to read some facts that the liberal news media just won't tell us. I may e-mail that whole thing to a few friends.

    Re: Replacement theology, it's one of the things I tried most to avoid when choosing a seminary. I can't imagine how anyone can believe in it, especially since we, the Church are so secure in Christ. If Israel can be judged, how much more so His church? The logical end to that is an insult to the ever loving, ever merciful Creator who saved us.

    I like to tell the kids I work with at church that Israel is grounded. It's a term they understand - no privileges, but still a part of the family, the child just can't go anywhere, and if it's severe enough can't watch TV, play outside, etc.. (Some families I know use "grounding" as a term for an y privilege loss - grounded from TV, etc.) But, the child never stops being loved, never ceases to be a child. In the same way, God just isn't giving them the privileges they had when they were being led in the wilderness, when Elijah was defeaating the prophets of Baal, etc..

    But, one4 of these days Israel will get its privileges back.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    The Palestinian intentions are clear and unmistakable. They are borne out by history, year by year, for each of Israel's fifty-seven years of continual conflict against an enemy whose goal is Israel's annihilation.

    During the 1967 War, Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir stood before the global press corps to defend the war, saying, "the Arabs can fight, and lose, and come back to fight another day. Israel can only lose once."

    I've yet to hear anybody mount a logical argument to the contrary.

    None of this is unknown to the leaders of the European Union. Or the leaders of the Russian Federation. Or the diplomats at the United Nations.

    One would think that even the United States government might have analysts clever enough to detect a pattern here and realize the objective isn't Palestinian statehood but Israeli annihilation.

    So it can't be chalked up to ignorance in the usual sense. It is willful ignorance. Deliberate, willful ignorance adopted by a conscious choice to ignore the facts and participate instead in what is, in the final analysis, a global conspiracy against Israel's existence.

    The chosen target for the coming flashpoint is Jerusalem. Since there isn't a world leader on the planet who doesn't have analysts who can see the same thing we can, they know that forcing Israel back behind 1949 lines won't end the terror. And they also know that Israel will not surrender East Jerusalem by accepting the imposition of the 1949 Armistice lines.

    Two thousand, five hundred years ago, (think of it!) the prophet Zechariah described the events that would lead up to the coming of Israel's Messiah.

    "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zechariah 12:10)

    Zechariah was probably born in Babylon and was among those priests who returned to Jerusalem after the Captivity in the group led by Zerubbabel. This would place the beginning of Zechariah's work as a prophet around the month of November, 520 BC.

    In his lifetime, 'Israel' had not existed for two hundred years. Judah was under Persian occupation. The Temple had been destroyed and Jerusalem was in ruins.

    From that vantage point in history, Zechariah described Israel's political situation in the last generation before the coming of the Messiah.

    "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

    In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness." (Zechariah 12:2-4)

    Jerusalem as a burdensome stone, a place that causes all the people around to tremble. Check.

    All the nations that 'burden' themselves with Jerusalem to be cut into pieces. Hmmm. . . . US support for Israel is the stated cause of 9/11 and the subsequent war on terror. Check.

    'All the people of the earth gathered against it.' Sadly, that now appears to be true. Check.

    Zechariah predicted God would smite those who ride against Jerusalem with madness. Hmmmm. (again)

    The Palestinian Authority has more or less global support for the creation of an openly terrorist state dedicated to Israel's destruction existing side by side with Israel.

    Provided Israel surrenders Jerusalem, the Temple Mount and the rest of Judaism holiest places. Madness? Check again!

    There are two conclusions one can draw. The first is that this is quite a coincidence. Simply amazing. What a great guess! If the coincidence theory leaves you flat, that leaves only one remaining conclusion.

    Jesus is coming. And He is coming soon.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Israel - Middle East
    Thursday, June 09, 2005
    Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
    A reader took exception to my characterization of a Palestinian state as a 'terrorist state' and emailed me to tell me so. The Palestinians, he explained, were only using terror because they have no other weapon with which to fight against Israeli 'occupation' of Palestinian lands.


    The Israelis bring the terror upon themselves, argued my correspondent. Palestinian terror is the result of resistance to Israeli occupation. Remove the occupation and the resistance will end. Etc., etc., ad nauseam.

    The argument sounds plausible enough. It seems to be the logic behind the shift of US support to a return to the 1949 armistice lines as a final solution to the conflict under the terms of the US-inspired Road Map to Peace effort.

    End what the Arabs define as 'the occupation' ie; a return to the 1949 Armistice lines, and there will nothing for the resistance to resist. Peace at last! Simple.

    In reality the argument breezes right by 'simple' -- not stopping until it gets to 'stupid'. The argument is 'stupid' -- but it is built on what would more rightly be termed willful ignorance.

    In the years between 1949 and 1967, Israel stayed within the 1949 Armistice lines now being championed as the solution to terrorism against Israel. There was no 'occupation' to resist.

    The 1949 Armistice lines gave what is today called 'occupied Palestinian territory' in what the Jews call Judea and Samaria to Jordan. Jerusalem was divided into Jordanian East Jerusalem and Israeli West Jerusalem.

    The Gaza Strip was, according to the agreed-on 1949 Armistice lines, given to Egypt. Jordanians settled in their territory and Egypt sent settlers into theirs to establish possession. There was no territory under dispute that was 'occupied' in any meaningful sense.

    The world had accepted the 1949 lines and the existence of the State of Israel as a legally established member state of the United Nations, whether the Arabs accepted it philosophically or not.

    Remember, the issue under discussion is the removal of the 'occupation' as a solution to Arab 'resistance'.

    In the years 1951-1955, while Israel was inside the 1949 Armistice lines and there was neither an 'occupation' nor a 'resistance' 503 Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks emanating from the Jordanian West Bank.

    Another 358 Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks emanating from Egypt's Gaza Strip.

    Terrorist attacks launched from Lebanon and Syria killed another 61 Israelis. Then, as now, the majority of the attacks were launched against population centers and the majority of the targets were innocent Israeli civilians.

    For example, on June 11, 1953 terrorists attacked a young couple in their home in Kfar Hess, and shot them to death. The victims weren't collateral damage of a 'legitimate act of resistance' to some 'illegal occupation' -- they were a young couple planning a life together in their own country who were deliberately targeted and murdered.

    On March 17, 1954, terrorists ambushed a bus traveling from Eilat to Tel Aviv, and opened fire at short range when the bus reached the area of Maale Akrabim in the northern Negev. In the initial ambush, the terrorists killed the driver and wounded most of the passengers.

    The terrorists then boarded the bus, and shot each passenger, one by one. Eleven passengers died in the attack. Survivors said the terrorists spat on the bodies of their victims. The attack was launched from Jordan's West Bank.

    In 1957, a kibbutz farmer was killed and two others wounded by a Jordanian landmine; another was killed from ambush as he worked in the fields.

    In 1958, two fishermen were shot and killed as they fished; a motorist was ambushed near Sharon. . . this wasn't resistance to an 'occupation'.

    It was a 'resistance' to the existence of the State of Israel.

    In 1965, TWO YEARS BEFORE the Six Days' War that created the so-called 'occupation' that is the alleged justification for Palestinian 'resistance', Yasser Arafat's Fatah attempted its first terrorist operation against Israel when it tried to bomb Israel's National Water Carrier.

    Israel was in 1965 still within the 1949 Armistice lines, the so-called 'occupied territories' were part of Jordan, but the "Palestine Liberation Organization" was already in existence.

    If Jordan and Egypt were in possession of the so-called 'occupied' territories in 1965, and if the Palestine Liberation Organization's first attack was against Israel and NOT Jordan, then where is the 'Palestine' that Fatah was created to 'liberate'?

    I'll wait and give you a few seconds to think about it.

    Ready? I want you to get this, so I am typing slowly. . . the 'Palestine' that the PLO was created to 'liberate' -- the 'occupied territory' against which the Palestinians are 'resisting' . . . is the Israel that existed as defined by the 1949 Armistice lines.

    We return, for a moment, to my original assessment that the 'simple' solution slid past 'simple' and all the way to 'stupid' -- it doesn't sound so harsh anymore.

    The 'occupation' created by the capture of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 is a smokescreen.

    That isn't to say that the PA doesn't want the 'occupied territories' of Judea, Samaria and Gaza -- but they are a means to an end, not the end itself.

    The ethnic cleansing of Jews from the territories outside the 1949 Armistice lines is only the first step in the greater historical goal of the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the "Palestine" the PLO was created to 'liberate'. Israel.

    In the thirty years from 1960 to 1990, 704 Israelis died from terrorist attacks, including terror attacks against Israeli targets abroad.

    In 1993, Israel signed its 'memorandum of understanding' with Yasser Arafat that resulted in Israel's disastrous policy of trading portions of the captured territory to Palestinian control in exchange for peace with the Palestinians.

    Over the course of seven years, the deal expanded until what began as a deal to give the PA limited autonomy over Jericho became all the West Bank, the Gaza strip, and a demand that Israel withdraw to within the pre-1967 borders.

    How much peace did Israel get in exchange for trading away half its territory? From the signing of the Declaration of Principles outlining the exchange of land for peace until Arafat launched the Oslo War in September 2000, 256 Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks. That's a period of precisely seven years.

    In the preceding thirty years of terror that brought Israel to its knees, 704 Israelis were killed. Averaged over the decades, ummm, 704 divided by three decades . . . that's an average of 234 victims of terrorist attacks per decade.

    'Peace', therefore, killed more Israelis in seven years than war did, on average, in the preceding thirty years!

    The 'peace' for Israel ended when Arafat rejected a settlement that was tantamount to an Israeli surrender to demands that were beyond his wildest dreams when Oslo was first signed in 1993.

    Arafat's rejection of the Camp David Accords, a virtual surrender to Palestinian terror, has, as of April, killed more than 1,058 Israelis, again, mostly innocent civilians deliberately selected as targets.

    The Oslo formula of trading land for peace has therefore resulted in more Israeli deaths from terrorism since September 1993 than all the terrorist attacks from 1949 to 1993 combined.

    Here is the interesting thing about this whole thing. At least, it is the thing that stands out as the most inexplicable part of it. It isn't selective propaganda -- it is recent history.

    Sixty years isn't that long a period of time, but it is evidently long enough for selective propaganda to create a mythical Palestinian people out of displaced Jordanian and Egyptian terrorists.

    But Oslo was only twelve years ago. And the terrorism continues unabated. And somehow, history is being revised as it happens.
    (continued)

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Wendyj: there is a logic to replacement theology..simply put it is that God tolerated the continual backsliding of the Jews until they killed His Own Son. Forty years were then given for repentence, afterwhich the nation was judged and utterly destroyed. God then chose a new people for Himself (the Gentiles) who became the new Israel-a "replacement" bride. The old physical promises all became spiritualized. The "Law" was finished. As the Church withstood centuries of persecution it spread and eventually conquered Roman paganism. The blessings of the "kingdom of God" came to earth as privilege, wealth and power were aggregated. The Pope became Christ on Earth, with temporal as well as spiritual power over the universal flock.
    Now this ignores St. Paul's discussion about the restoration of the "natural branches" outlined in Romans. Also how does one respond when the "original spouse" shows up at the door again in 1948, reborn as it were in "one day". Well you ignore it, hoping it will go away. Perhaps the same way the holocaust was "ignored" by much/most of Christendom. While mass executions and cremation ovens were nasty business, the Nazis were in fact clearing Europe of the Christ killers and the "dirty Jews". Do not forget that there was widespread anti-semitism on this side of the ocean for many years.
    For centuries the "Holy Land" was utterly desolate, barren, forsaken land. Then like a modern day miracle it has been resettled. It blooms like a rose. Now a majority of Jews in the world are located in Israel.
    If you follow the reasoning of replacement theology all of this is an aberation that will pass. The "corpse" is sleepwalking; it is not destined for life; it has no future.
    The alternative of course is that replacement theology is in serious error, that God never "gave up" on the Jew, but in a loving way has sustained them through the centuries, and in our time has returned them to the Land. From the famine of the last 20 centuries he is bringing them to the feet of the Son they despised and rejected. Like Joseph of old He will clear the room of Gentiles and do some "family business" one day soon. It will be a time of weeping but also great joy when this restoration occurs. I as a Gentile will cheer! The literal promises of the Old Testament prophets are being fulfilled. Anyone or anything that stands in the way of this reconciliation will be smashed by divine wrath. That is why we should not intervene to take away from the Jews what God has graciously given them..this tiny little strip of land and mountains in the West Bank- the ancient Promised Land.
    Regarding salvation there has only ever been one way to God, that is through faith as outlined in Hebrews 11. In this respect there is no difference between Jew and Gentile; we all come through the same doorway!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Dear wendyj

    I would give you a run-down on what I consider a demonic doctrine--Replacement Theology, that is--but it would be too depressing for me to speak to that subject again in detail. HSB or someone else may want to fill you in. Don Brooks seems capable to such a task. And there is PlumBob

    I will tell you that I knew a young man who was genuinly converted to Christ from a life of debauchery and the occult. I came to know him personally, and he had such joy in the Lord. He was on his way to become a great preacher.

    This young may went off to a bible school, which taught that like Judas and Satan, the Jews fell away from favor with God permanently, and that God had put a certain church group in their place. That school also scoffed at the idea of Christ coming to take His Church and to set up His kingdom, simply because the kingdom had come, they claimed, through them--the New Israel, the Covenant Family--whicn included all their children, their kin, and their social group.

    That teaching affected and depressed the young man to the extent that he committed suicide
    Last edited by ZionGene; 06-17-2005, 09:50 PM.

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