Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

here is my half shekel's worth.

LOL ROFL
I haven't even read the reply, but I KNOW it's worth more than a 1/2 shekel!!!!

Actually, HSB, I was off snooping around last night and stumbled onto this obscure little web page about the rebuilding of the Temple. Those folks (whoever they are/were) said that they anticipated building the 3rd Temple on the Temple Mount, ". . . after the DotR was taken down, and the whole site compacted by an earthquake. . ." (paraphrase, not quote.)

So you think it's the physical relocation of the Jews out of their homes - off their land, huh? Not 'who owns the deed'....

In absolutely any case, yes, I tend to think it's 'months' rather than 'years.' Just too many goofy things in the world now-a-days.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob I am using the internet hookup in a hotel room in Summersville West Virginia after a nice breakfast. But my wife is saying "tell PlumBob we have to get going" (to South Carolina to visit our son) so in the interest of domestic harmony I better sign off...half shekel is all you get today

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB, hope you had an uneventful trip!
Where is ZionGene? I'm getting concerned about him! Don, how's it going? And hello to everyone else who post much-too-infrequently in this thread!

To start off, I'll reference the FoxNews article at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150736,00.html
There's a good bit of meat in this article, but a couple of things I found particularly interesting include

Abbas "now can go to Israel and to the U.S. and tell them that he has done his homework, and they have to help him in consolidating the truce by more concessions," said Hani Masry, a Palestinian political analyst.

Clearly the same old gimme-some-more-and-we'll-see game. But I think the real nuts-n-bolts of this is tht the Arab factions are playing the game that almost forces Israel to speed the disengagement process along - probably including actual relocation of Jews from the effected real estate - a concession to HSB's scenarios (#1, 3, 5, ...) that I would rather not make , quite frankly, but from which I just can't seem to find any way out

Perhaps of even more interest is the insight in a Debka article http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1001 the meat of which has Hamas and IJ moving to solidify their ability to control the PA and at the same time increase their firepower within Israel's (or what used to be Israel's) territory. But the little static headlines on the main Debka page are certainly enough to tell the story - quoted in part

Palestinians shoot 3 Qassam missiles in Gaza Strip Thursday night -

Attack came a few hours after Palestinian terrorist chiefs in Cairo undertook to maintain current “lull” but rejected Abbas’ bid for a truce. Lull too came with price tag: Halt in Israeli military action and release of more Palestinian prisoners.

DEBKAfile’s sources report: Palestinian terror group chiefs hardened resistance to truce in three days’ hard bargaining led by Abbas and Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman in Cairo. Abbas’ own Fatah and Al Aqsa Brigades as tough as Hamas in manifestation of general revolt against his authority.

They want free hand to resume terrorist attacks beside Israel-Palestinian negotiations - egged on to continue violence in message from jailed Fatah terrorist Barghouti. Heads of 13 groups claim Jericho handover was prize won by terrorism.

So when are the Israelis going to figure out that if you feed the wolf, what you get is a bigger wolf!

RFN, if you're reading along, I sure do like this "tabbed browser" in Mozilla 1.7.3..... Sure makes the process of constructing these posts w/ quotes and links a lot easier.

Well, enough for tonite, I think.... PlumBob

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hello there PlumBob all is well, and I am very busy, with three Bible Study Groups, an Adult Bible Class, along with my Teaching and Directorships... now your making me tired just listening to all this... lets just say... Things are going!!!

I too am getting concerned about ZionGene... he had good input, think somebody got to him? Think that he capitulated to the HSB position? If HSB is anywhere close to the true unfolding of "His..Story" then what is recorded for this Planet is frightening... There's a whole lot of hurt coming... For those of us who have been adopted into His Family... We get to go Home early! And going Home isn't far off... Hal Lindsey thinks that the Rapture is the next big event... I think that we are likely to see Gog get hammered! Then go Home!

There are so many things coming due this Summer over there! Far more than anything we have seen in the past... HSB... I do hope that the HAMMAS & IJ decision to keep the terror going, may take this freight-train off track! If it keeps going as it is now... we may not see the year-end!!!

Blessings...

[Shelby]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Good evening, gentlemen,

SOOOOO many things to take in now, it gets difficult to follow what is happening.

With all these things taking place, which one of you put my thoughts about Isaiah 17:1 on hold?

Seriously, Lebanon is a powder keg waiting to explode, but I think it could come about by Syria trying to take in the WMD's of all sorts and end up blowing themselves up at Damascus. They get ticked off at Israel, again, and by trying to "hide" the various kinds of WMD's they are moving, get in a hurry and KA-BOOM!!

I can't put Damascus anywhere before the rapture because IMHO, I don't see it fitting in there. I feel that there is a "short season" of chaos around the world after the rapture, and many things happen close to the same time like an earthquake that devastates the DotR so the temple can be rebuilt, Damascus being destroyed, things like that. I have not found any bible references that indicate that the tribulation begins as soon as the rapture takes place.

Something new to throw into the fire here. I just think that somehow Isaiah and Ezekiel tie together, but that the events happen after we're outta here.

Thanks, in advance, for your comments and considerations.

YSIC, Carol

[Radio Free Narnia]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob, tabbed browsing is one browser feature I couldn't do without. It does help a lot in putting together large posts, and I only have to sign out of WeDG when I reboot.

Using the tabs, I can keep my calculator open (a most for strategy games), as well as MS Office and Pixia (image processing and paint program) and still not get that annoying "stack" of windows in my Status Bar.


HSB, Summersville sure is a pretty place, isn't it? If the Lord tarries and the creek don't rise, you really should consider a trip back there for the West Virginia State Gospel Singing Convention the last weekend in July or Labor Day Weekend. It's really quite an amazing event.


YBIC,

Dave

[Doug Fowler]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I agree with the short period of chaos after the Rapture. If Noah and his family being rescued is a sign of the rapture, then that week before the flood came when the family was sealed up in the ark would have to mean something.

I used to think it was just the time that the AC started to organize things, but now I think there's bound to be some chaos too - I remember reading Clarence Larkin's one book that a good friend loaned me at church, and he thought it could bedecades between the Rapture and the 7-year period. (Though, granted, he wasn't alive to see Israel's rebirth - so he felt it could be reborn after the Rapture.)

Or, do you think that week isn't symbolic of a wait betweent he Rapture and the Tribulation, but is instead merely a type of the "week of years" (7) during which the Tribulation takes place. I always thought the Flood was like the Trib. period - God's judgment - but I could be wrong.

This has been a very fun thread to follow.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Sorry Doug, I was just thinking about your statement that

Noah and his family being rescued is a sign of the rapture

Hasn't this always been considered a foreshadowing of God's protection of the Jewish people through the tribulation period, while the rapture of Enoch was a sign of the Rapture of those who walk with God before (and out of) the tribulation?

[Doug Fowler]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I've heard that, too, but I have heard that the ark was a type of the rapture as well. One of those times when something could well have two meanings, perhaps?

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hi Doug...
Your quote... I agree with the short period of chaos after the Rapture. If Noah and his family being rescued is a sign of the rapture, then that week before the flood came when the family was sealed up in the ark would have to mean something.
This just may be picky, but for the whole of the seven days the Door [Picture of Christ] was OPEN [God is not willing that any should perrish]... Then God Himself shut the Door!

Here is another thought...
Like the time between the Groom coming for the Bride [Jacob married to Leah], and then coming for his true love [Jacob being able to take Rachael] there was the Seven Days of the Marriage Feast [Leah's]. SOOooo... might Leah represent the Church, and Rachael represent His Chosen People??? Thoughts & Comments???

"If" the Leah / Rachael scenario is reasonably accurate, then the Time of the Gentiles is Up [Over / Finished / Done]... at the Marriage - Right? And since after the Rapture comes the Marriage Supper of the Lamb... That would leave the Left Behind Series in Pergatory??? Right?
Thoughts & Comments??? There is no time to go and buy 'OIL' for the Lamps AFTER the Bride Groom has entered and the Door is locked!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Good evening, gentlemen,

With all these things taking place, which one of you put my thoughts about Isaiah 17:1 on hold?

Uh-oh, Carol, did we put you on hold?

Being the non-prophesy guy here, I'm reading thru toniight's posts, absolutely w/o a clue. I went to my e-Sword to find Is. 17:1, and got

Isa 17:1 The oracle concerning Damascus. "Behold, Damascus is about to be removed from being a city And will become a fallen ruin.

NASB. What I found particularly interesting was the 3 commentaries I have loaded:

Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city; a kingdom, as the Targum; it was the head of one, but now its walls were demolished, its houses pulled down, and its inhabitants carried captive; this was done by Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, 2Ki_16:9 it had been a very ancient city, see Gen_15:2 and the head of the kingdom of Syria, Isa_7:8, and though it underwent this calamity, it was rebuilt again, and was a city of great fame, when destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, Jer_49:24 after which it was raised up again, and was in being in the apostle's time, and still is, Act_9:22, 2Co_11:32.

and it shall be a ruinous heap; or a heap of stones, as the Targum and Kimchi interpret it. A "behold" is prefixed to the whole, as being very wonderful and remarkable, unthought of, and unexpected.

Gill

Isa 17:1 -
The burden of Damascus - Which is, according to the common version, The cities of Aroer are forsaken. It has already been observed by the learned prelate that the prophecy, as it relates to Damascus, was executed in the beginning of the reign of Ahaz, probably about the third year. If we credit Midrash, the Damascenes were the most extensive and flagrant of all idolaters. “There were in Damascus three hundred and sixty-five streets, in each of these was an idol, and each idol had his peculiar day of worship; so that the whole were worshipped in the course of the year.” This, or any thing like this, was a sufficient reason for this city’s destruction.

Clarke

Isa 17:1 -
The burden of Damascus - The oracle indicating calamity or destruction to Damascus (see the note at Isa_13:1). “Damascus is taken away.” That is, it shall be destroyed. It was represented to the prophet in vision as destroyed (see the note at Isa_1:1).
And it shall be a ruinous heap - See Isa_35:2. This took place under the kings of Assyria, and particularly under Tiglath-pileser. This was in the fourth year of Ahaz 2Ki_16:9.

Barnes

What I think I see as a consistent theme is that the destruction of Damascas is seen by these commentators as a historical fact - already having happened. Of course I understand that the first destruction may have been a type of another destruction to come, but is that necessarily the case?

Are we sure that there is a second (or third, for all I know) destruction of Damascas that is somewhat contemporaneous w/ the end times?

Ya gotta help me out here, pleeeeeze

[Doug Fowler]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Thanks, I had misred that; indeed, interesting. But, if the door was left open to the ark...

Could that mean instead that the week is symbolic of the 7 years of tribultion? During which the door is still openf or gentiles, but it will be tougher and tougher. The Great Deception and all. Obviously, there are a whole bunch saved during the Tribulation, as they are the saints who come out of Great Tribulation - led to Christ by the witnessing of the 144,000 Jews. And then the Flood a type of the judgment of Christ at His 2nd coming to the earth?

Our pastor's preaching through REvelation right now - we're stopped near the end of chapter 7 for Easter lsat Sunday and hte next 2 here. It's fascinating, but very tricky. So many types and such.

[Don Brooks]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Doug...
Great concept! But methinks there is a bit of wishful thinking going on here on your part.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were a second chance... However... The Parable of the "Ten Virgins" would seem to imply that Once the Bride Groom has come for the Bride, the Door is SHUT... those who had to go and buy "OIL" [picture of the Holy Spirit] were not able to enter... their time was up!

I believe that if we think that its going to be OK to miss the 'Rapture', because those 'Left Behind' will be able to get "Saved" anyway, even when they had the chance before the Rapture, to get the "OIL" inside of them!

Then why, my good friend, is there a Crown [Reward] for those who are looking for His appearing, if its OK to miss it in the first place, because there is a second chance... What about all those who have died without the "OIL", shouldn't they too have a second chance? Why limit it to only those alive after His Coming?

What if... All those who come out of the Great Tribulation are all Israelites?
What if... All the time between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks is "The Time of The Gentiles"...
What if... The concept as spelled out in Romans 1:18-32, particularly verse 24... 'God gave them up...' means just what it says... As verse 18 states... 'For the WRATH of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men...' Behold NOW is the acceptable time of Salvation! Fore... After the 'Rapture of the Church'... the doors are locked for the Gentiles... their time is up! God turns His attention back to His Chosen People, and authors in the Wine Press for their eventual Salvation... two-thirds will be lost & die [The coming Holocaust that is twice as big as that last one under Hitler], only one-third turn to Him. A remnant of Jews continue to be saved right through the Great Tribulation, and all of the One-Third remaining after the Wine Press is actioned will turn to Him in a Day... Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 '...for they shall all[U] know me...'

Time is surly running out for us Gentiles... and the Wine Press is prepared for His People... There is a Whole lot of 'Hurt’ coming folks... Are you ready?

Are you prepared? You can know for sure that you are part of His Family!

[Lay it to Heart]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob
I believe the commentaries you brought up on Isaiah 17 are from scholars trying to explain things away. Isaiah 17:1 says, "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." Damascus has never been taken away from being a city. It has always been inhabited from the days of Abraham and/or earlier. Genesis 15:2 is the first mention of Damascus. This verse talks about future destruction and it will be terrible.

HSB
"If you see large deployment of US ground troops going into Israel FOR ANY REASON..." This seems to be consistent with Isaiah 17:
12 Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!
13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
14 And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

What hook in the jaw?
The US may get involved. The uncorrupted Hebrew does not say Gog is from the uttermost north. It says Gog is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal who are from the north quarters. The spiritual prince of the Meshech and Tubal is Mecca. Is it talking about a spiritual prince; maybe not? Who is the military leader of these countries? It could be Russia but if the situation follows Isaiah 17:12-14 it could be a coalition put together in a hurry. Oh, by the way, who is the country that puts coalitions (hordes) together these days? And what about that hook in the jaw thing, anyway? Debka file is posting some really nasty stuff. Say, it isn’t so. Yes, it’s true, the story is out ‘bout Iran having purchased 12 each X55 or Kh-55 cruise missiles with a 1875 mile range for a 200 kiloton bad boy (Buy stock in headache medicine now). Of course, you must understand these cruise missiles are for peaceful purposes. If Persia (Iran) gets these messengers working we will have two main choices; take out Tehran or try to appease them. And why not try to appease them? After all, appeasing temper tantrum tyrants has always worked before, right? It’s possible to believe that if we could all just get along, and if we did then Persia wouldn’t be so irritable or touchy. If the heirs (AKA settlers) don’t leave their homes it is very foreseeable that President Bush will feel obligated to call for a peacekeeping force to come in and throw the homeowners out. Of course, people would say he is doing it just for the oil (AKA cattle and goods). The hook in the jaw may not be oil or contracts but instead nuclear instability.

[Doug Fowler]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

If all those Tribulation saints are Israelites, then why does it say that they come from every tongue, and tribe, and nation? Unless you think the diaspora was so great that there are Israelites in every tribe.

I think you're missing one very large group of people here - those who have never heard. "Wait," you say, "but hasn't everyone had a chance to hear?" I don't think so. While as I mentioned, the Great Deception is going to catch many unawares, there are also many who have never heard who are in those many tribes and tongues. There are presently numerous people groups in New Guinea alone who have yet to hear, there are people in Communist nations and in India (where they will not allow missionaries in) to hear, and in many nether regions of the world there are quite a few.

Now, if you want to say that everyone in the U.S. has heard, or in Western Europe, maybe - the Church is dead there. But, what is it they have to hear and reject during the AGe of Grace - it is God's Word, not some empty tradition. So, I dare say there will be people even from those nations who are not part of those who wasted their chance. They will get a chance to receive the Gospel. The only thing is, it may no longer be Grace they're saved by; if you want to argue that they will have to either be beheaded or endure till the end, that I can see. Clarence Larkien wrote the same thing, IIRC, that this dispensation would end w/the rapture.

Just wanted to edit to add, I'm spending too much time reading here again. It's so confusing, and right now I'm too busy, & feeling that pressure again like I "have" to participate just b/c I'm a member. So, I'm taking the place off my favorites list and leaving for a while - but thanks evreyone for a great discussion. Too great in fact :-)

See y'all here, there, or in the air.