Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Humble: a very sober and helpful comment in this "interim" period!

Oh great! I just noticed that I am now an official WEDG addict. My wife will be thrilled to hear that

PS to PlumBob: Five Man Electrical Band was a Canadian band from the early 70's I think. What's 30 years Bro?

I've already closed the link, but Signs was recorded on an album named "The Sounds of Canada" or some such. 1971, I think. Just a few days ago Ahhhh, I remember those times as if they were yesterday!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB,
Suffice to say that God is going to do what God wants done.
What we do in the interim is what is important.

Humble: a very sober and helpful comment in this "interim" period!

Oh great! I just noticed that I am now an official WEDG addict. My wife will be thrilled to hear that

PS to PlumBob: Five Man Electrical Band was a Canadian band from the early 70's I think. What's 30 years Bro?

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

You could say the "gun is loaded and the trigger is cocked". I am not attempting to sound like a scaremonger when I passionately plead with people that what is about to happen in Israel affects us over here. God is not mocked by anyone.

Absolutely!

I am reminded of a song from my younger days, which goes in part

Signs, signs, everywhere the signs
Blocking up the scenery, breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the signs?

Quoted in part, from the song Signs, by Five Man Electrical Band, at http://www.andrewg.ca/songs/signs/

We don't often read the signs, when the message isn't something that we want to hear. The signs do, however, point us to the correct way. We are also, as another song used to say, "Running on Empty."

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB,

I read about the La Palma theory as well.
It is my opinion that the United States is not going to be a significant "end-time" player.
Now, whether that means the destruction of the East coast due to a tsunami or the West coast via "the BIG one" (or both?) I cannot say.
Suffice to say that God is going to do what God wants done.
What we do in the interim is what is important.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Dear PlumBob: thanks for your rersponse. I don't have ANY problem with people speculating about who MaGog may be, or Gog etc. To listen and weigh various scenarios is both interesting and stimulating. It is a real encouragement to read and study the Word, and that is good!!! I also believe that if a little poll were conducted of WEDGies that an overwhelming number would probably go with the MaGog = Russia theory. I don't mind that! (In fact I hope and pray that some explanation other than the one I posted is actually correct!!) It is useful however to track some of these beliefs to see if they can explain all of the Scripture details, not just some of them. We all learn from that exercise.

What I am objecting to strenuously is when people ADD things into Scripture then use what they have added to confirm their theory. The Rast article indicates that the primary rationale for Gog invading Israel as outlined in Ezekiel is to "wipe out" the Jews. That is simply totally incorrect. It is not in the Bible! Am I the only one bothered by this??

On a separate note I JUST finished viewing a Discovery Channel program (which I taped) about mega-tsunamis. The situation that is the focus of the program is a volcanic island in the Canaries called La Palma. There is an instability that has opened up a fissure that runs almost the length of the island. Apparently there are underground pools of water that have collected and may reduce friction to the point that half the island slides into the Atlantic. These calm scientists indicated that their predictions call for an approximately 650m high wave that is about 30km long starting at the island and moving westward at hundreds of km/h. For the non-metric folks that is a half mile high wave heading our way. They said it was not a matter of if but when this occurs. Likely some seismic disturbance will trigger the slide. You could say the "gun is loaded and the trigger is cocked". I am not attempting to sound like a scaremonger when I passionately plead with people that what is about to happen in Israel affects us over here. God is not mocked by anyone.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Regarding the two recent articles on Gog/MaGog war please tell me if I am being oversensitive in accusing the authors of outright DISHONESTY. . . .. It grates me when authors can "spin" whatever they want to attempt to prove some point.

OK, my dear Brother, I simply ask you to consider that YOU, just like ZionGene, just like Kinsella, just like everyone, just like ME - see the world through your own colored glasses - your own biases, your own experiences, - and your own expectations. I doubt that Kinsella is steeped in statistics and, after all, he has a business to run (I say that almost tongue-in-cheek, because that is included in my concept of "personal biases.")

HSB, don't we all "spin" whenever we want to attempt to prove some point? I love you like a brother, I do hope you know that - you have a certain scenario in which you deeply believe. It may be correct. It may not be correct. It may be partially correct. You deeply believe in it, mainly because it's YOURS. It's your child - you hatched it in your mind - your intellect - to you it makes perfect sense. You see the world through your colored glasses, because your mind searches for those things that confirm your scenario-child to be valid. You have consistently put "spin" onto both the scriptures and the news, to lead others to your conclusions. That is totally without criticism, HSB, because we ALL do that. Human nature! (Now, that being said, I'm not trying to open a can of worms about where in the process of the fall, we got that inclination! )

The chance that your scenario is TOTALLY CORRECT is about 1:1x10^3 - in my estimation. Pretty good odds, don't you think? Kinsella sees things a littl more skeptically - duhhhh.,...

CHILL, BRO!!!! We're all gonna get to the same place at the same time !

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Dear PlumBob and others: I saw these articles as well and simply shake my head. How can a process have any claim to legitimacy when it invites a multiple time belligerent (Egypt) to sit on the adjudication panel (the Quartet that just became an Octet..same ol song though ) Regarding Iran, suppose they get nuclear weapons, which of course nobody over here wants to happen. However Israel now has subs that carry cruise missiles no doubt with nuclear payload. In addition it is believed that they have at least 100 nukes that can be fired from silos near Dimona. Does the MAD policy not work here. Can Israel not inform Iran and others that any missile strike against its territory will be met with a nuclear retaliation..mutual assured destruction...in effect an updated "Samson option"?

Regarding the two recent articles on Gog/MaGog war please tell me if I am being oversensitive in accusing the authors of outright DISHONESTY. Kinsella for the reference to "incalculable" odds in favor of Ezekiel naming Russia, and the Rast article for indicating the primary rationale given for the invasion in Ezekiel is to "wipe out" the Jews. It grates me when authors can "spin" whatever they want to attempt to prove some point.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hello, All....

As always, whenever I am away from the thread for a few days, it takes me hours to catch up. All very interesting mateial.

I noticed an interesting article in Debka today, concerning Israeli / US relations, which seem to be on the slide. http://www.debka.com/ Article posted in part.

DEBKAfile Exclusive: Washington to co-opt Egypt and Saudi Arabia to the Middle East Quartet. June 24, 2005,

DEBKAfile Exclusive: Washington plans to co-opt Egypt and Saudi Arabia to the Middle East Quartet. Jerusalem is gravely affronted by a step that would grant Arab governments a position of influence on a supposedly impartial body dealing with the Israel-Palestinian conflict. . . .

The US secretary replied that neither Egypt nor Saudi Arabia could be asked for cooperation without a seat on the relevant international bodies.

This development puts the lid on the Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon’s claim that disengagement would be good for US-Israeli relations and lead to an improvement in Israel’s world standing.

Given all the uncertainty surrounding this matter, even at this late date, I'm going to hazard floating another scenario - just for the sake of it. 1) Given that the IDF is exhibiting more reluctance (to put it mildly) on an almost daily basis, to be involved in the explusion, 2) given that the US and Israeli relations are deteriorating on an almost daily basis, 3) given that the PLO, Abbas, Hamas, etc. continue to exhibit the absolute intent to "push Israel into the sea" on an almost daily basis, 4) given that . . . . , 5) given that . . . . etc. almost ad infinitum, I'm beginning to wonder whether the "disengagement" a-la giving up the land, will actually ever come about. It seems the tide is quickly turning against A. Sharon. Although he may still appear to be in power, there are other powers and forces lining up closely at his heels, that could pounce quickly to supplant him, with almost no regard to what Condi, or anyone else thinks. I reckon that we have yet to see the true nature of this "disengagement and expulsion" matter take either physical, or political form. It's a long, long way to Tipperary, and a long time until August. Disengagement may be completely passé 'ere too long.

Later -

And I just noticed on FoxNews, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160673,00.html

Hard-Liner Wins Iran's Presidential Election

Friday, June 24, 2005

TEHRAN, Iran — The hardline Tehran mayor steamrolled over one of Iran's best known statesmen to win the presidency Saturday in a landslide election victory that cements conservative control over nation's political leadership. . .

Ahmadinejad's surprising strength alarmed moderates and business groups at home and was watched with concern by international officials. Ahmadinejad would likely be a tough negotiating partner in Iran's talks with Europe over its nuclear program, which the United States contends aims to develop a nuclear weapon. Iran says the program aims only for producing energy.

He has criticized Iran's current negotiators as making too many concessions to Europe — particularly in freezing the uranium enrichment program — and he was expected to put Iran's nuclear program into the hands of some avowed anti-Western clerics.

It may not only be A. Sharon's successors that don't give two hoots about what Condi thinks. Mutually assured destruction might just be the ticket to get rid of the infidels. Isn't that the mindset with which we're dealing?

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

(I picked up this article about 30 minutes ago. It is another angle on the destiny of America)


U.S. founded to destroy Islam?
Pastor's book calls America to be 'Silent No More'


Posted: June 23, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
While other Christian ministers are treading lightly with regard to the confrontation posed by Muslims, an Ohio pastor says he believes America was founded to see Islam destroyed.

In "Silent No More," Rod Parsley, who pastors World Harvest Church in Columbus, a city with a significant Muslim population, characterizes Islam as a "false religion" that "is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth."

"I look to the horrors of Sudan, and I find slavery, massacre and traumatic human upheaval of the sort that even beleaguered Africa has seldom seen," writes Parsley. "Unless Islam is checked from without and reformed, at the least, from within, it will become a force that shapes the future of the world as much as any other on earth."

Reflecting on the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001, Parsley says it's not true to say that the day was the dawning of a "brand new world." "Rather, what happened was that has been raging for centuries merely crashed into our lives," he says. "A war that has raged in nations around the world merely exploded onto our Western landscape – the war between Islam and Christian civilization."

Parsley's book deals with much more than the confrontation with Islam. It's a manifesto on hot-button issues from race relations to homosexuality to abortion to poverty.

Race relations and poverty? Aren't those issues generally associated with "liberals"? Yes, explains Parsley, who adds that the critical moral issues facing America don't belong exclusively to either political party or the old-fashioned stereotypical ideological breakdowns.

"I told an audience of 1,000 pastors we hosted recently that I'm not a Republican or a Democrat – I'm a Christ-ocrat," he said. "I want to commend issues to the political left that typically belong to the right and vice versa. What I'm promoting, essentially, is biblical morality, and that's neither conservative nor liberal."

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Suspicious too, not only squeamish and uneasy. And the drift of the thread at this point seems to warrant that. All nations in the world today deserve the wrath of a Holy God

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I suspect that many Americans are beginning to feel squeamish, uneasy, and suspicious about our posts

If it awakens them out of their stupor, then it isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Besides, better to feel squeamish and uneasy, than to feel the wrath of a Holy God.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I suspect that many Americans are beginning to feel squeamish, uneasy, and suspicious about our posts

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

So...While you are waiting for Russian hordes to sweep into Israel, or an Islamic jihad to "wipe out the Jews", keep one ear cocked to the radio/TV and pray it doen't refer to US Marines being deployed quietly to implement a Palestinian state in the west bank area. I'm not spinning a fish story either..although there is a big hook involved for somebody!!


I don't think the U.S. is going to have any part of this invasion...at all!
If we do, it'll be post-harpazo, and Hillary will be leading the charge.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

SandyLion: thanks for the post. I found the article very easy to read and quite helpful. I am glad the author did not claim anything like 10 to the 91st power certainty for the interpretation given (as in the Kinsella article). In this article the conclusion is that the "invasion" by Gog is an Islamic coalition. I offer a few comments/questions for readers to consider. First if Ezekiel took the time to name Persia, Cush and Put along with Gog/MaGog, Tubal and Meshech he could have easily mentioned Syria, Jordan and Egypt as well. To suggest that they are covered by the phrase "many people with you" strikes me as pretty lame when these countries have been so heavily involved in anti-Israel wars in the past. I offer the alternative view that these particular countries are not named because they are in fact not involved in the Gog enterprise (you can dig through the 800+ posts and find my reasons for saying that or I could simply state it again if there was any interest.)

I went to my Bible to see what rationale is mentioned for the "invasion" in Ezekiel 38. Article claimed: "The first reason God gives for the invasion in Ezekiel 38 is a desire by the coalition to cover the Jewish land and wipe them off the face of the earth" Well I looked high and low for a long time- sorry I cannot find anything like that in my Bible. To state this and then build a whole rationale that the Muslims have always wanted to wipe Israel out so therefore Gog invasion = Muslim invasion is unfair, OK I will go the whole distance and say DISHONEST!!! It's spoil they are after not wiping anybody out. Please help me somebody on this point!!

The article does not explain who Gog is. This is an important point because there are only two folks named in prophecy in the Old Testament as having important roles vis a vis Israel and Gog is one of them. Now it is fine to say "I don't know" or "someday some guy with a cute name like Gog will show up" but folks you cannot ignore the name- it is a major part of the prophecy.

Next point : in the article where is the USA in all of this? Not mentioned in the list of countries. Does not seem concerned about the invasion (whether from a defence of Israel standpoint or perhaps at least defence of American strategic interests in the area..like oil) Folks America is the only superpower in the world. An invasion of this magnitude would merit some sort of response.

Another point: why does God speak about using a "hook in the jaws" to drag Gog and his coalition into Israel? It seems in the article that there are plenty of reasons for the Muslims to invade to wipe out the Jews and grab spoil without God having to DRAG them in..

Sorry folks. I probably sound like a broken record by now but these articles have major weaknesses. I do agree with a main point that the author makes regarding the response of God.."they (the nations) will know that I am the Lord" Amen to that!


So...While you are waiting for Russian hordes to sweep into Israel, or an Islamic jihad to "wipe out the Jews", keep one ear cocked to the radio/TV and pray it doen't refer to US Marines being deployed quietly to implement a Palestinian state in the west bank area. I'm not spinning a fish story either..although there is a big hook involved for somebody!!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Wendy,several in my church ride Harleys ! I know some of the walkman people are believers too!!! but i know what you mean.....
we are in the world but not of it......... I do go to the mountians when i can.
but living up there, after a week i would be ready for noise and people. AND i HAVE to be Doing something..... we are called to be ambassadors, not hermits ........ Lewis