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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Originally posted by HSB
    PlumBob: since you are from Texas you can draw and shoot faster than I can. No sooner did I post a comment about the flatbed stone than I see you have already updated your comment with a picture. Do they have internet connections in the saltmines or are you taking a long weekend??
    Nice long weekend. Don't go back to salt mines until next Wednesday.


    Hold the phone! Withdrawal to begin in July, and be completed in 4 weeks.
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1110511157369


    But it isn't necessarily a done deal
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1110424787719


    And lastly, anyway, here's what happens to the United States, parts of Canada, and parts of Mexico - Yellowstone blows up w/ a super-volcano, and that, as they say, is that. A rather long article, but interensting never the less.
    http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story21.htm
    Last edited by PlumBob; 03-11-2005, 03:58 PM.

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    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      OK Captain HOOK! I'll bite. But this may not "PAN" out: (or "PETER" out for that matter)

      The hook in the jaw means God himself is doing the reeling in. He is about to bring somebody onto the Mountains of Israel where they will meet destruction. The hook will guide Gog and his associates into Israel but Gog is still responsible for the "evil scheme" that he is planning. At this point in time the most realistic scenario is as follows. The whole world desperately wants the israeli/arab mess settled, yet the government in Israel faces potential civil war if they force the IDF to implement the coming peace deal. SO they pressure the US (whom they trust) to lead the implementation with the dirty work that involves. Now the US will be reluctant to be too visible on this one given the significant Jewish population back home which will be VERY angry at USA involvement in what the Sanhedrin just denounced. This reluctance however turns to OPPORTUNITY as it allows a large military force to remain close to Mid East Oil on the West side of Middle East- they already have the East side locked up. Sheba and Dedan (Saudi Arabia) see the transparency of the manoever and protest the evolving scheme, joined by the Merchants of Tarshish (EU) who are powerless to prevent the USA from dominating the entire landscape of the middle east. Look for somebody to talk about a mission to take democracy to the Palestinians as a cover story (just kidding). The deployment into israel will be huge and fast. The fish will be in the net at that point! You can figure out the rest of the story for yourself. remember I said this is the most realistic scenario to me "at this point in time"

      Here is something that just occured to me. In Israel no doubt there is much anxiety and wringing of hands about the near future and the upset and chaos it is likely to bring. Yet we read in Ezekiel that God Himself is doing the reeling in, almost like he is fly-fishing!!! I believe this story provides an incredible insight into the divine perspective..GOD IS ABOUT TO DEMONSTRATE HIS AWESOME POWER FOR HIS OWN NAME'S SAKE! He will reel in a big fish then panfry it for the whole world to see (most importantly His chosen people who largely live in a state of agnosticism/new aginess etc) When He is finished there will be a whole lot more Orthodox Jews and a decidedly reduced number of Reform Jews on the rolls. Look for a massive exodus of Jews out of the USA soon, perhaps based on this very event. (It will take something BIG to shake them free from the comfortable life they presently enjoy) I'm not even sure that finding the Ark of the Covenant would do the trick...

      Hook and then the Jab!

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      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Well, it certainly does make sense. I guess we'll see, sooner than later, huh

        Wife and I were talking this morning, about whether to go ahead and spend the IRA's now, or "wait and see"..... Tempted to go play. What do you think, a Harley? I think I'd look real good on a Hog!

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        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          I've got this really cool T-shirt to wear on the Hog.

          Pix on the back of the four horsemen. Logo on pocket, and in back says

          New Jerusalem Polo Club, Playing for Keeps

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          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            Take a picture of the shirt, front and back, and post it if you can. Thanks!

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            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              Dear Janet

              I heard the point made before that all of the garments and the implements and the furniture for the Temple,have already been made. And I think I have seen somewhere a picture of the cornestone.

              The very fact that the violation of this next-to-be-built temple by the Antichrist, is termed "the desolation of abomination" by Jesus, tells that its legitimacy will be recognized by God. Also, the prophets seem to all indicate, that in the last days, everything will be greater and more intense than in former times in the history of Israel. And if that is a rule which will be followed, I do not see how present-day Israel could settle for a temple today, which is less ornate than any of the two previous ones. Thefore, we do not having a problem with the glory of the garments and furniture etc, but of the very building itself. I do not see how Israel can rebuild the temple, after 2000 years of being without one, which is no more than a temporary structure or tabernacle.

              Now HSB and PlumBob, this is where I am with the Ezekiel 38, 39 business.

              HSB, I am laboring directly with text of Ezekiel 38 where the means of transportation, and the reason for the attack seem to be summarized in verses 4, and in 11 thru 12.

              As for the horses (and horsemen) of Ezekiel 38 verse 4: there are only two times in scripture where the Hebrew word “soos” is used for crane, but it means "horses" in dozens of other places. And most importantly, it is used to mean "horse" in the first occurrences of the word in the bible. Furthermore, the verse associates "horsemen" with these animals, which could not be cranes, or crane-like machines. Ezekiel 38:4 says, "And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords"

              Here are the only two occasions where the Hebrew word “soos; is used to mean anything besides horses

              Isaiah 38:14 Like a crane or a swallow, so did I chatter: I did mourn as a dove: mine eyes fail with looking upward: O LORD, I am oppressed; undertake for me.
              And:
              Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

              Finally, the text seems to lay out plainly the intent of Gog to invade Israel

              Ezekiel 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

              If it was a paratrooper invasion it would say that Gog would ”descend” (for which there is a Hebrew word) like a storm, but the word "ascend" is used in scripture to mean, among other things, to capture or overwhelm. An instance of this would be where Israel ascended after the wall of Jericho fell flat. It does not necessary mean to go up vertically

              I see no other meanings in the texts, as far as the purpose for the invasion of Gog and the means of that invasion are concened, beyond what is commonly held to be the case

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              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                dear ZionGene: There will be many people waiting for Russian Cossacks armed with swords to ride into Israel on horseback and you know they may be right, but I don't think so. I suggest you keep even part of an eye focused on what I laid out. For my part I will plan for disaster if I see a large contingent of troops enter Israel (ON WHATEVER PRETENSE) related to the West bank settlements. Look out. If it is to be NATO let's sit this one out and let the Europeans strut their stuff!!!
                My point about horses is that the Hebrew word can have more than one meaning (eg crane) because the root deals with speed of movement. Up until a couple hundred years or so ago the fastest thing was a horse. Obviously in this context a lot of troops are arriving fast in Israel so it makes sense to say this is an invasion on horseback. There are other possible translations however.
                Tell me how you see this all unfolding (or is it too obscured at this point in time). Secondly where in Scripture (if anywhere) do you see anything touching on the forced evacuation of over 100,000 Jews from the very Land they believed God called them back to, not to mention that this plan is deemed "null and void" by the new Sanhedrin. Maybe there is nothing at all. I just think there is, that's all.
                Regarding the Temple, I agree with you completely that it will be a glorious structure that is built and later defiled. However sacrifice itself could recommence immediately without the Temple in place.

                and another question. In all my travels throughout Israel I hardly ever saw any cattle (other than dairy cattle for milk) Israelis rarely eat any meat. So when your translation says Gog is coming for cattle are we even talking about the same country?
                Last edited by HSB; 03-11-2005, 05:59 PM.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Well HSB, what's about this scenario!

                  Israel has a difficult time cooperating with the Road Map--could be due to a fall of the present government, or the influence of the Sanhedrin.

                  Israel is taken to the Security Council, where for the first time (on "principle," and out of pride for being disregarded by Israel) America votes that Israel be made to withdraw. But because of people like you and me in the West, America hesitates to physically pressure Israel. Then Russia jumps in and says, since you won't do what the Security Council demands, then we will. Russia finds some very eager underlings like Iran, and promises to cancel out the Israeli nuclear threat with its potentially greater one, and guards them in this way. This all happens very fast: within two weeks or so! Gog is on his way, and without the USA, all that anyone else can do is to protest. Israel is frightened to death, and Gog wrings its hands in glee about the bounty which she hopes to collect in this process. Suddenly the mountains in the North of Israel begins to "skip like a calf," and human beings learns that God can turn ice into missiles. God puts perhaps half a million men in a long long sleeper hold in one night.

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                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    I agree that United Nations resolutions that allow force might potentially be implemented by anyone. Certainly Russia might attempt to swing a big stick. Here are a few objections however. Do you think America which presently has about 170,000 troops in Iraq as well as sizable forces scattered throughout the area would actually allow Russia to seize a strategic location like Israel without a fight? For that matter do you think that Israel would not use its sizable nuclear force if they felt this was an invasion? I think the whole thing will be far more subtle but the rersults equally disconcerting...the forced evacuation of a large population of Jews from the mountians of Israel.
                    Thanks for posting this scenario however. It is worthy of a close further examination.

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                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      The very fact that Russia is a greater nuclear power than Israel would neutralize Israel's nuclear stick: Israel would not dare to initiate its use, if Russia is the opponent, or the declared protector of a coalition which is working to carry out a Security Council resolution. But after God upsets Gog, and Israel realizes that he is in retreat, then Israel will chase the remnants who try to flee, and who may head for refuge in Syria. But even then, at this point, the decimation of Damascus might be with non-nuclear means, since nuclear fallout that close would hurt Israel too. This then would make of Damascus an easy target, for the Syrians put up practically no resistance, because all of the enemies of Israel at this time are demoralized.

                      I can see Israel rushing after this to encourage the rebuilding of the Temple by religious Israelis, especially if it was know beforehand that the Sanhedrin had perhaps called for prayers to God to destroy Gog. The secular Jews would stand aside

                      The tragedy which America may be encouraging now, is that after condemning Israel for the "settlements" etc., she might find it psychological difficult indeed to tell Russia not to materially resist what she herself has just declared to be wrong on Israel's part.

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        Additionally, I expect there to be very much he-hawing, and yo-yoing relative to Israel for the rest of George Bush's term. I believe that in spite of all the efforts to bring a Palestinian state into being, that it shall not come to pass, simply for the reason, that "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it." Everybody will be blaming blaming blalming, and bad-mouthing Israel for the frustration caused by this delay delay delay. This all comes to a head just before the present born-again President Of The United leaves office. Another president, whose running platform included a pledge to be more resolute in bringing Israel to heel takes over. This man, who has not any time committed himself to Christ, is not resolved to help Israel for any reason, spiritually or otherwise. This makes Gog's "legal" action easy

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                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          Originally posted by ZionGene
                          I can see Israel rushing after this to encourage the rebuilding of the Temple by religious Israelis, especially if it was know beforehand that the Sanhedrin had perhaps called for prayers to God to destroy Gog. The secular Jews would stand aside
                          If God spanks the invaders, regardless of their national origin, in a way like the scripture seems to indicate He will, the secular Jews are going to be crawling all over each other to get in line w/ Judiasm in general, and the Sanhedrin in particular. And that will be true no matter what the other part of the scenario might be.

                          ZG, I posted a link back a page, that has a pix of the cornerstone.

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            ZG: I love the "very much he-hawing, and yo-yoing" comment. Tell me more about your thoughts on Russia. Will they come riding in on horseback? (ZG:"I see no other meanings in the texts, as far as the purpose for the invasion of Gog and the means of that invasion are concened, beyond what is commonly held to be the case")
                            what might they be after as spoil? are they after cattle? at the end of the story God sends fire on the coasts of MaGog. Do you think that is the arctic coastline of Russia being described? it is perfectly fine to say "beats me" I often do that myself. however I like to probe where these scenarios actually lead. Brother HSB PS Any thoughts on who Gog might be?

                            PBob: you also have a way with words. the "spanking" reference is a good description of what Father will be doing. I certainly agree that Jews all over the world will be completely shocked and awed by this divine intervention. I suspect nonJews will run as fast as possible to exit the whole Land of Promise when they realize "there is a God in Israel" who is not happy with them.
                            Last edited by HSB; 03-12-2005, 09:35 AM.

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                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              Wow!
                              There has been a lot of good dialogue here... Hooks - Fish - Cranes - Fly-Fishing, etc. One might think it somewhat "Fishy"... It would be funny if it were not so real!!!
                              This 'stuff' is happening right now...
                              What if... Our Freemason [friends?] were to already have a Temple pre-Fabricated and ready to go!!! What if... given the go-ahead it could be erected within days or at the most weeks??? What if... This desire on their part has been nurtured over hundreds of years with the goal in mind of ruling the Globe from its World Capital City - Jerusalem?

                              But let me take you back on an interesting journey through "History"...
                              In the last Chapter of Daniel we read... v9 - And he said, go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified and made white, and tried; [Folks... understand this... Although Daniel didn't see the "Cross", the Holy Spirit caused him to pen these words {What better description of Salvation and our Christian experience is there?}] but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked will understand; [Again Daniel is stating that in addition to those being purified and made white above, there is going to continue to be those who reject and remain wicked... these will not understand] but the wise shall understand. Wow... but there is so very much more to follow...
                              v-11 & v-12... And from the time that the Dailey sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days[1290 days]. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days [1335 days].
                              Quick History...
                              Rome under Titus destroyed the second Temple along with Jerusalem on the same day of the same month as Nebuchadnezzar did the first Temple {just a coincidence?}! Surviving Jews were still able to find their way up onto Temple Mount and continue the Sacrifice... SOOooo... we see that Sacrificial Process can be conducted without the Temple. For hundreds of years this was done. Islam developed and spread all throughout the Middle East. Then in 632 Mohammed died, and Islam stated that the Prophet was taken up to Heaven from Temple Mount [Although there is no record of Mohammed ever having visited Jerusalem]... still Islam declared that Temple Mount was now become their third most holy site. And therefore NO JEWS ALLOWED - the Sacrifice was 'cut off'!!! Also in that year the small building erected on that Mount was to grow into the Dome-of-the-Rock... A Temple to the Moon god Allah... [Abomination to God? to have a house to another god built on His Mountain, and in place of His House???].
                              As you all know... Britton moving across North Africa pushed Islam {Ottoman Turks} out of the Middle East and so Palestine came under British rule. The Balfore Declaration was in response for the Jewish assistance during the First World War... in 1922 the League of Nations unanimously adopted the Balfore Declaration... in essence the World told the Jew... "Go Home!"
                              If we now take a more detailed look at Daniel's statement, we see the when the Sacrifice was halted [632], and his stated wait [1290] Note Daniel tells us that a prophetic day can mean a year... Then 632 CE added with 1290 years of waiting brings us to the very year that the World Unanimously told the Jew to "Go Home"!!! WOW!!!
                              More History...
                              Israel is formed in May, 1948 and is immediately attacked... outnumbered 400 to 1, she manages, against all odds, to survive... her survival has been dominated by a whole series of wars... the most notable of which was the six-day war in 1967. Here, Jerusalem having been taken away by Nebuchadnezzar 2,500 years earlier was taken back... take 632 CE add 1335 years as Daniel states and... 623 + 1335 = 1967!!!! Were these Soldiers BLESSED? You bet they were... I saw it myself on TV as they kissed the very ground!

                              God's Word is true... and it is possible to see it's greatest events pictured in advance and throughout History... Daniel's Prophecy at the end of his Book has already been fulfilled... as was his Prophecy of the desecration of the Holy-of-Holies {Antiochus Epiphanies}... certainly both Prophecies are again to be fulfilled in our immediate future... We live in very exciting times folks. Things can virtually happen over night... Ain't it great to be alive at this time in Daniel's end of days?
                              Shalom...

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                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                Something in Don's last post caused a red flash bulb to go off in my mind. He said something about "Freemasons...ruling the globe from Jerusalem."

                                I have heard hints of such folks being connected to Jewish religious authorities before. I have never paid much attention to this, since I considered it to be only froth, but perhaps--just perhaps--there is some validity and truth to it, concerning which I need to be enlightened.

                                Now I have before me a bible program, which, within thirty seconds, I can bring up any word--or short combination of words--in the Torah, in the Tenach, in the Apocrypha, and the Septuagint, in Greek or Hebrew or Latin-- wherever they may apply. In addition, I have about fifty translations of the New Testament in English, and other chief languages used in the world today, which my bible program can handle.

                                Without digressing too much from the main theme of this thread, would someone please help me here

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