Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Does anyone know what the relationship is like between Russia and China?

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Does anyone have any info on why a smart soldier like A. Sharon is promoting the Disengagement? I mean we have basically concluded that he is either deluded, insane or being pushed around. Is it possible there is a wise strategy involved?

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Dear PlumBob

I want to be careful not to flaunt my insights into Hebrew to browbeat others, who may have greater gifts from God in other spheres.

I would only get back to looking at the introductory paragraph of Ezekiel 38:4, if someone else with equal or greater skill in the Hebrew language places their insight into the same text beside mine, and comment specifically about the time sequences indicated by the placement of the vavs (ands in English) which I emphasized. I need to have confirmation as to whether my position is valid or not.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

ZionGene and others: I have reviewed my earlier posts. I apologize for the comment about dishonesty made concerning some linked articles. (eg the comment about certainty 10^91) It would have sufficed for me to simply say I disagreed and let it go at that.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

ZionGene, I for one would like to see us move forward with the examination of the original texts, which you started in posts 826 & 829 (page 83) and post 838 (page 84). I found that to be particularly interesting and meaningful. Especially to look into the original of Ezek 38:13, I think it was.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Sharing one's thoughts is perfectly harmless, but when others are held up as being dishonest, it goes beyond the pale in my estimation.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

ZionGene: please share your thoughts in terms of what you believe. I don't mind somebody saying "I believe you are wrong for these reasons". Alternatively simply outline what you believe will transpire, when and how. We differ on the nature of the "hook" and who is involved. I understand and respect your position. I know we differed on the "horses" etc. Perhaps we differ on most elements of the narrative, other than we share a deep love and affection for Israel and share the concern that what is planned against them is nasty business. We are brothers in the Lord, that makes us family in which we can love and respect each other, even as we differ on some points of explanation. HSB

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I am torn between trying to maintain a friendship, and further proving that a postion on the subject under question is in error.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob: I should clarify what I meant. In the last few posts there was reference to a Russian incursion (remember the 10^91 certainty ) and another article talking about a Muslim led Jihad. When I said name a scenario these were the ones I was thinking of in particular. But I don't really mean to prejudge others that haven't even been presented. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

You name a scenario and I will tell you why I personally have difficulty with it in light of the Scripture.

I don't think you are really intending to say that you have prejudged every other possible scenario that might be presented - even those of which you have not yet heard - and rejected them a priori, are you? Let it not be so, my friend.

An interesting idea.
Can anyone tell me about fasting? How is it done? Has anyone ever done it?
Has anyone ever not eaten for 40 days?

Humble, your question is best answered by someone other than me, but since there are no replies - let me interject-
ZionGene is not suggesting that any of us go without food for 40 days. Although perhaps some one or two possibly could, it would not be wise. The idea which ZG is proposing is that individually, we might set aside a specific day of the week, perhaps, and resolve that on that day we would spend most, if not a significant part of the time in prayer. My appreciation of the original implication of fasting was that the person was so burdened and so engrossed in the process of praying, that they simply forgot about the need for food. The evolution became that one might make a conscious decision to abstain from food, and in some instances, beverage as well, as a way of expressing to God their intense concern and desire for His intervention about something. Generally, I think, the fast lasts for a 24-hour period. Certainly, there is nothing that keeps one's mind reminded about what it is that one is fasting about, more than hunger.

[Doug Fowler]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Thanks for the comment on EMPs, I had wondered myself how powerful an Electro-Magnetic Pulse weapon would have to be, because I was thinkinf of what the spoil would be.

See, there just isn't a lot of spoil, except maybe for water; I suspect being so close to the sea Israel has a lot of capacity to de-salinate and otherwise purify the water, and that is something Persia, Libya, etc. could use. But, so could all the others.

However, if it was possible to send a very small EMP attack, and then take all the military equipment and re-program it, then there might be the spoil. Iran's military is a mess, it decides to launch one of those, before or after a strike on the nuclear program, Russia and the others come along to take the spoil of some of the best military equipment int he world, which they figure they can then reprogram. God then miraculously defends Israel, which can't defend itself because its military has been wiped out.

However, I am totally clueless about this technology. I dont' even know if a "really tiny" EMP is even possible, and I also don't know if once you get something that's been knocked out you can easily grab and reprogram it.

That is a possible alternative, and points us back tot he fact that the attack could come in the middle or even at the end of tribulation. I need to read about the end result again, thaat 7 years of burning stuff, and see if it's possible Israel might do that in the MIllennial kingdom. I'm not all that sure it's going to be necessary, but it is possible that the Lord will have Israel burn the weapons for fuel and so on as a memorial even if they don't need to.

Either way, we do need to realize that this could occur later. Although they'll need something for power those last 3.5 years in the wilderness when they're in hiding. (Although the Lord coudl easily give them manna from Heaven and so on just like He did for Moses and the Israelite.)

I am getting tired, though - and I do need to get off of here again and back to my studies (and right now, to sleep :-) I just got on here to get the link for a friend - this is one fun topic!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Snoopy- you ask good questions. Here are my thoughts on the Fish story. A fish is hooked "out of" the water and "into" the boat. The Americans are in Israel in relatively small numbers. The reason I said "reluctant" in my scenario is because large numbers of Buffer zone troops will be required and the business of dragging people out of their homes against their will is dirty and messy. I cannot think that any normal person would look forward to that assignment. American troops are decent folks who would not look forward to such.

The struggle I have with the "hooked out" of Israel is that there is no indication in the text that Gog's army actually leaves the place..they end up being destroyed there in Israel. The wording of the text strikes me as strange if it means to hook forth from Israel but they don't actually leave.

Regarding horseback, in an earlier post I mentioned that the Hebrew word translated horse in our Bibles actually means "in swift flight". I don't have any difficulty with the fulfillment of this prophecy being a huge horde of invaders sweeping in on horseback (although I really wonder how they would get there..do they ride through the Caucasus mountains from Russia etc) If that is what happens however so be it.

Here is my point: If a big army of aggressors arrives in Israel we will all watch God destroy them. I doubt that any of us would be surprised at that eventuality. Judgment then falls on the nations that spawned this outrage.

But suppose in fact a reluctant America gets "dragged" into implementing a Palestinian state. The leadership of the venture then decide that there is a lot of spoil available. However the peacekeeper force gets destroyed, along with the major country that sent them (the USA). Tell me if anybody would be surprised..well Snoopy that would be just about EVERYBODY!!! And yet in my opinion this scenario is actually more realistic and plausible than ANY of the others I have heard described. You name a scenario and I will tell you why I personally have difficulty with it in light of the Scripture.

Since this thread first started in January I think the American position towards Israel has hardened. The President now talks in terms of 1949 armistice lines as a basis of settlement. A number of much more intelligent folks than I have smelled "sellout". I agree with them. America is moving quickly from previous status of "best friend" to "worst threat".

My wish is that people would realize that God is working out His will in Israel and restoring Jews to the Land after thousands of years. I share the concern of many on this thread that what we need is a spirit of repentance, with prayer and fasting.

So...do not sell your shares in the notion of a Russian invasion or Muslim Jihad sweep into Israel, perhaps even on horseback. I simply ask you to keep one shekel reserved for a much less obvious fulfillment of prophecy, one that ends up destroying US in the process if we abandon Israel. PlumBob gave the scenario 1 chance in a 1000. IF he sees USA deploy in large numbers I think he might just revise those odds a bit.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Next, why is it so hard to believe that the final war will be fought on horseback as foretold. In the time the passage was written, how would a man describe something he did not understand? Using words that captured ideas rather then literal translations. When it talks about horseback, maybe it truly means horseback, as this seems to be more of a literal meaning than an idea. Also, why is horseback such a stretch when we live in such a technically dependent world. One strategically placed EMP pulse over the area would send most of Europe and Asia back into the stone age. This would make a battle on horseback extremely plausible.


Military hardware is normally "hardened" to prevent malfunction due to an EMP attack.
The militaries of the world will function properly.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I have been sitting idly by, reading and listening to everyone's opinions and ideas on what the passages in Ezikiel mean. My biggest stumbling point in this thread, are the “hook in the jaws” comments.

HSB if the “hook in the jaws” is meant to bring the USA into Israel, why are they already there? There have been posts made in this thread pointing to the fact that US troops are already working with the IDF and are already there. I don't think that the US needs to be pulled into the conflict, they already have so much invested in it.

Second, to use your fishing reference, isn't hooking a fish taking it out of the environment it is already in? It makes more sense to me, that the US would have to be dragged out of the conflict, and not in. I believe the act of being pulled away from something your crave so violently, may cause the actions of defiance in the face of God. A blinded leader leading his country down a dark road of destruction.

Next, why is it so hard to believe that the final war will be fought on horseback as foretold. In the time the passage was written, how would a man describe something he did not understand? Using words that captured ideas rather then literal translations. When it talks about horseback, maybe it truly means horseback, as this seems to be more of a literal meaning than an idea. Also, why is horseback such a stretch when we live in such a technically dependent world. One strategically placed EMP pulse over the area would send most of Europe and Asia back into the stone age. This would make a battle on horseback extremely plausible.

I guess another hesitation, is with the idea that God will drag “hook in the jaws” some country (either USA or RUSSIA) into the conflict to fulfill the rapture. I have a strong belief that the free will or choice that God gave man will play into the Rapture, and the destruction of the invading Gog army. Being dragged into the conflict suggests that they are unwilling. I believe the invading Gog army will be more then willing to go in, and may need to be “hook in the jaws” dragged out. Also, I think that God, does not need to “Drag” evil into a conflict to fulfill his plan. Evil chooses to do so, only to feel God's wrath. The image is a lot stronger when evil chooses to do something even though it has been warned about the consequences. Being “Dragged in” conjures up an image of a reluctant participant with a expected outcome. If Gog truly wants to defy God, why would he have to be dragged into the conflict?

Now that being said, I am a relatively young Christian. I look to the older Christians on this thread to guide me a little. I hope that my post will inspire some thought and maybe some new direction in this thread.

Snoopy

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I want to propose something to someone out there, was has visited but not posted in this thread. Would you please open another thread calling for a special time of prayer and fasting for the residents mentioned above. I believe that it would be a good idea for it to run for forty days, beginning the first of July. This brings the end of it to approximately the time when that man propose to evict the Jewish residents.

An interesting idea.
Can anyone tell me about fasting? How is it done? Has anyone ever done it?
Has anyone ever not eaten for 40 days?