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Hi all,
Due to well over two years of a clear lack of interest in this board, I will be closing it when the hosting is up next month (24 Aug). I see no reason to continue this with the lack of readership and participation.

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Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Aaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh..... Shoot, this is 2 nights in a row I've been in the middle of puting together a (rather long) post and dumped it. I don't know what I'm hitting wrong on this laptop, but it sure is frustrating!!!!

    Well, now that I've got that out of my system -

    I'm reminded of the 1959 song "What a Difference a Day Makes" - some of you may remember it, many won't. It was back on page 16, just a week ago, that we obliquely considered the ramifications of a civil coup in Israel. The IDF vs. Frankenstein, or something like that.

    HSB, you wrote, in part:
    Originally posted by HSB
    When I mentioned the threat of Civil War or coup in Israel, I mentioned it as a significant thing to be avoided- . . . I am now thinking of what you put forth.

    . . . Does anybody think that Jesus will reign on earth using a parliamentary or congressional democratic system? Doubt it!!

    If there is a crisis in Israel and the government system were to collapse, people might turn the religious authorities, but probably only a minority.That's the problem right now- the secular folks make up a majority. I don't think that a US government would recognize such a replacement system for one minute. The Arab states would probably be more conciliatory, given the fact that all of them are run by either religious or military authorities presently.

    I don't see any clear alternatives AT THIS POINT, until the present system is totally discreditted. Let me suggest a possible way this could happen however. Under huge economic blackmail pressure from EU and America (let's face it folks, that is what is driving Sharon) an Arab Palestinian state gets proclaimed and starts to be implemented. God intervenes and smashes the implementation. Don't be surprised even to see the long lost Ark of the Covenant make a reentry. Now if the religious leaders rallied around the Ark and claimed to have been given divine authority to act, Israelis would have a MEGACRISIS on their hands. I suspect most Jews would say "Let's follow the Ark and trust the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob"
    As I scanned the news tonite, I saw, again and again and again, not only in Arutz Sheva, but also in JPost, and finally a really nice little summation in Haaretz -

    "Mofaz seeks shorter pullout period, says 8 weeks is too long
    Defense min.: 8-weeks give plan's opponents too much time to disrupt the implementation and to recruit more people to their struggle."

    that just keeps pulling me back to the possibility of a civil uprising - spell that coup, if you want - in Israel. The disengagers vs. the non-disengagers.

    HSB, I don't doubt the truth of your statement that the rest of the world's governments would probably NOT deal with an Israeli government of Orthodox Jews, doing business from a religious world-view. At the same time, that is exactly what's driving the governments of most of that part of the world, that is, their religious world-view, expressed in one way or another.

    And let's face it, we're not seeing the stage being set to deal w/ a situation that is anything like any of us, or our immediate kinfolk have ever faced. This is a spiritual battle, of monumental proportions.

    I'm still not convinced that we've done a really admirable job of distilling the essence of this matter. We're missing something here, ladies and gentlemen. Do I think we will ever get to it? A resounding NO. I think it was Don-the-wee-Baptist that said that God isn't going to allow us to know exactly what's going to happen. Right-on, Brother.

    Originally posted by ZionGene
    Don, you know what! With statements like that, and in spite of many many more from Christians also, you just see what is going to happen. When God does get "heavyhanded," and drops the boom on the world, in evident response to what the nations are pursuing in Israel today, just watch and see. Somebody--and nearly everybody--will be wringing their hands and complaining, "We did not know. Nobody told us."
    ZionGene, You are soooo on target.


    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      Hi All...

      I'm getting ready to do an all-day Lecture 10:00 am to 10:00 pm on Daniel... Wow! What a study; and a summary of what is happening in the Middle East... some of your views will be shared!!!

      Now in my study, I found that Nebukednezzer [sp?] actually wrote Chapter #4 as his Testimoney... Imagine an Evangelist today, getting ready to publish a Book and a World Leader comes along and suggests adding a Chapter... He wants to tell his Story of how he found out that there is a God in Heaven, and that this God is the True God!

      Now that ought to make a Powerful Statement... Right? Well that's exactly what happened to Daniel. Good old "Converted" Nebukednezzer added the 4th Chapter.

      Now I said all that to say this... Ch#4 verse 17 "... to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He will, and sets up over it the lowest of men."

      Nebukednezzer was low, but changed and his kingdom was restored to him... his son Belshazzer [sp?] was low, but stayed low and died!

      SHARONE may be low now... but he could change... if he doesn't... he will follow in the steps of Belshazzer. And that is not a pleasent thought... to be weighed in the balance and found wanting!!! A "heavy hand follows!"


      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        Psalm 50:1-6. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. 2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. 3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. 4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. 5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. 6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          I have been pondering the impact of the summer "evacuation" from Gaza and the 4 small settlements in north Shomron (Samaria).

          Some twenty years ago there were settlements in the Sinai that had been built after the 1967 war. These were evacuated with the associated destruction of all buildings. The whole area was then returned to Egypt. This forced evacuation was difficult on those involved but did not generate widespread Israeli support since most people believed the area was outside the borders of the Promised Land anyway.

          Now we turn to Gaza and the 4 small settlements in north Shomron near Jenin. There are a huge number of Arab refugees settled in the area around Gaza. This explains part of the problem of continual mortar, rocket attacks from those camp areas. In addition many Israelis do not consider Gaza to be an important part of the Promised Land. Afterall this is the area the Philistines lived in in ancient times. It was tough sledding to subjugate those enemies. By the time we get to discuss the settlements in north Shomron some would argue that in the second Temple time this whole area was under the control of Samaritans (non Jews) and is not worth fighting for anyway. You have to go way back to the time of the early prophets before the destruction of the northern nation of Israel to get strong historical links to that land.

          Even in the case of Judah territory (eg Hebron) there are very few Jews there in comparison to a militant Arab population. I could go on to talk about the futility of trying to hold the Old City of Jerusalem in light of Arab population, Islamic control of Temple Mount, Christian hostility etc....
          Do you recognize the frog in the pot of water on the stove?? Where does it all end? Folks it ends with the elimination of all Jews from the whole country. Nothing less will satisfy the Arabs.

          The rabbis are calling for world Jewry to get involved and try to block the evacuations:

          Time will tell if this Gaza evacuation goes ahead or not. I can assure you that if it does the abandonment of the entire west bank, save for a few settlements like Maale Adumin and Gush Etzion that are close to Jerusalem, will proceed ahead, probably very quickly. God Himself will get involved at some point, the timing is in His hands.


          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.


            With all that you are posting here, I don't even need to check in with any news agencies - you've got them covered here: and, with insightful commentaries to boot!!!

            I'm understanding more and more with this long thread and enjoying it immensely.

            God bless you all for participating and sharing what the Lord lays on your hearts.

            YSIC, Carol


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              Dear Carol: thank you for joining us and your comments. Please contribute any thoughts or questions along the way. We`are all feeling our way. The continuation of this thread follows from the fact that we believe we are watching prophecies being fulfilled "in real time". That would be exciting enough. But there is more. We believe the future of our country hangs in the balance, literally. God will act soon in a physical way. Pray that we are not on the receiving end of judgment. We still have time for repentance and intercessionary prayer. Love HSB

              PS I love the verse from Proverbs that you have at the end of your post. In this case the name of the Lord is El Hatikveh Shakanim (Hope of the settlers!)
              Last edited by HSB; 02-25-2005, 01:15 PM.


              • God will save the tents of Judah first

                Bible prophecy and the word of God certain do not have to depend on human instrumets for their fulfillment, but so very often, God fulfills His word in response to the "local" actions of men. I dare to say, that the valor and faith of the "settlers" in territories of Judah in Israel today, are "earning" them the pride of place in the near future, which God gives to them in the following texts. I have highlighted some sections for your consideration. (I love how God flexes His muscles in verses 1 and 2 of Zechariah 12)

                Psalm 69:35-36 For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession. The seed also of his servants shall inherit it: and they that love his name shall dwell therein.

                (That word "dwell" is acquiring new meaning to me, in light of present happenings)

                Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. 2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. 3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. 4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God. 6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. 7 THE LORD ALSO SHALL SAVE THE TENTS OF JUDAH FIRST, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. 8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

                Unwittingly, the "Settlers" living today in the more dangerous areas of the patrimony of Judah (Gaza, etc.), may be earning for their tribe the first place in the process of the final redemption of God of the Children Of Israel


                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  From 2/25

                  Hello, All ---

                  Considering today's homicide bomging in Tel Aviv, I'm still not convinced that the disengagement might not get derailed before it engages.

                  There are many signs that point toward so much instability, that everybody may simply back away from the table.

                  And yet at the same time, the news continues to point toward setting up for a 70th Week world - e.g., The Earth isn't happy -

                  From 2/26

                  Well, I guess I've got to finally quit talking about this. I may be 'wrong' - Ouch, boy did that smart. I'm going to defer to Debka's analysis that I've read through this morning - and quote in part - from

                  "Abbas has not so far raised a finger to dismantle any of terrorist groups and nothing more is expected from him than symbolic punishment for the instigators.

                  But Sharon’s office has made it clear that Abbas will be given still more leeway before any drastic military action is undertaken and exchanges with the Palestinians will not be interrupted.

                  The most serious allegation leveled against Sharon by informed sources is his failure to respond to a development revealed exclusively by DEBKAfile’s military and intelligence sources. Instead of cracking down on terrorists, Abu Mazen and his sidekick Mohammed Dahlan have secretly applied to more than 20 world governments with urgent requests for large quantities of heavy weapons. The Israeli government was too busy elsewhere to keep track of this development or to calibrate national security measures and the easing of anti-terror restrictions accordingly.

                  The army Abbas is building is designed to absorb the disassembled Palestinian terrorist organizations. For the first time, they will be equipped with heavy arms.

                  Exposure of this latest underhand intrigue should top the agenda at the London meeting supposedly on Palestinian security reforms opening in London Tuesday. It is a matter of urgent concern for the United States and Middle East Quartet members committed to the road map. Instead, Russian foreign minister frankly admitted Friday, February 25, to supplying the Palestinians with “military machines” and said Moscow was considering sending them APCs since the Palestinian Authority, he ventured to claim, had proved itself in control of security."

                  Of course, we'll just have to wait and see, but as badly as I'd like to see this thing slapped down, I guess I've got to be perfectly objective and honest w/ myself, and admit the chances aren't looking real good.
                  Last edited by PlumBob; 02-26-2005, 09:47 AM.


                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    Disengagement didn't work for Ahab, either. Ahab, through his wife, had Naboth killed and went to take his vineyard (1 Kings 21). What difference is there between that and the forced removal of Jews from the land today?

                    It's interesting to note that as some of you have pointed out, that the Sandhedrin is back, rebanded, and as my wife says, and on their farewell tour. As they gain authority, they may influence the resistance. While I don't see the Sanhedrin in prophecy, it makes since that they would exist given all the other things that will transpire.


                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      There is a report out by Reuters News today, that Israel has frozen the transfer of towns to the PA, until Abbas has begun to crack down on terrorism.

                      Ladies and Gentlemen of Israel.

                      I am convinced that the psychological dissolution of Prime Minister Begin had much to do with his regret for having handed Yamit and the oil wells back to Egypt, and for only getting a cold peace in return. You are similiarly pursing a similiar course today which will drive more than one of you insane. This yo-yo is not good.



                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        About an hour after placing my previous post, I pick up this article seems to be right on the button: you may want to check it out. Notice how Mr. Sharon is being driven to-and-fro. Also read the paragraphs which speaks of his having "gone mad." Here are one or two excerpts

                        (From Jerusalem Newswire Editorial Staff, February 25th, 2005)

                        Former Sharon allies, meanwhile, said they believe THE PRIME MINISTER HAD SIMPLY GONE MAD, and that even if his retreat were some kind of clever ruse, it would nonetheless set a dangerous precedent that would threaten the future of the Jewish state.

                        Has he gone mad?

                        At least one of Sharon’s former allies, meanwhile, believes the old general has simply gone mad.

                        “Arik Sharon is crazy - the great fighter is running away. He has become a very dangerous man,” legendary IDF fighter Meir Har-Tzion told Ma’ariv .



                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          ZionGene: interesting article in JPost about the history of the settlements:


                          oh, by the way the Hebrew word for the settlers is in fact "mitnahlim".
                          Last edited by HSB; 02-26-2005, 10:14 PM.


                          • Sanhedrin in Prophecy???

                            Someone said they don't see the Sanhedrin in prophecy. According to Hal Lindsey that have a big part in the building of the 2nd Temple.

                            Here is his article:

                            Revived Sanhedrin discusses Temple

                            © 2005

                            Two remarkable developments took place recently that are extremely relevant to students of Bible prophecy.

                            For the first time in 1,600 years, the Israeli Sanhedrin was re-established. It occurred in Tiberius, the site of the Sanhedrin's last meeting in AD 425.
                            A unique ceremony – probably only the second of its kind in the past 1,600 years – is taking place in Tiberius today: The launching of a Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the land of Israel.

                            The Sanhedrin, a religious assembly that convened in one of the Holy Temple chambers in Jerusalem [before AD 70], comprised 71 sages and existed during the Tannaitic period, from several decades before the Common Era until roughly 425 C.E.

                            Details of today's ceremony are still sketchy, but the organizers' announced their intention to convene 71 rabbis who have received special rabbinic ordination as specified by Maimonides.

                            These religious authorities believe it was necessary to re-establish the Sanhedrin because only this properly ordained body of sages can authenticate a Messiah when he comes. There is a growing expectation of the long-awaited Messiah to appear among devout Jews. The rebirth of the Jewish state and recapture of Jerusalem has increasingly influenced this conviction.

                            On Feb. 9, just a few weeks after the Sanhedrin's re-establishment, another enormously important development took place. The religious sages began to consider the rebuilding of the Temple and reinstitution of ancient animal sacrifices as prescribed in the Law of Moses.

                            The first step toward facilitating this monumental endeavor was to seek to determine the exact location of the Temple's foundation. Sanhedrin spokesman Rabbi Chaim Richman told Arutz-7:

                            It is appropriate that the Sanhedrin convened to discuss this lofty matter of the Temple's location this week ... the Sanhedrin continues to move toward strengthening the nation of Israel.

                            As all these things happen all around us, the Sanhedrin is researching ways to renew the deepest roots of our faith – to renew Temple service, reunite Jewish legal tradition and inspire the Jewish people to aspire to greatness. Our people have one path before us, and we will continue to march toward our destiny.

                            Sanhedrin member Rabbi Yisrael Ariel is the most ardent believer that the Temple is to be rebuilt in this generation. He is the former Yeshiva head, founder of the Temple Institute, and one of the paratroopers who took part in the 1967 liberation of the Temple Mount. He said:

                            People today ask, "Who are we in this generation to even consider building the Temple?" But in this week's Torah portion we see that the commandment to build a Temple was given to Jews who had just sinned and committed idolatry in the Sin of the Golden Calf. The fact is that what God requires in this world is for regular people to do their best. That is what we are trying to do.

                            The most difficult problem is to determine with certainty exactly where the previous Temple's foundations are. Muslims have not allowed Israeli archeologists to do archeological research on the Temple grounds. As a matter of fact, the Muslim custodians of this area, which they believe is their Third Holiest site, have systematically sought to destroy and remove any archeological evidence of Israel ever having a Temple there.

                            The Sanhedrin determined that there are only two viable theories as to where the Temple stood. One teaches that the Temple stood on the same basic site on which the Muslim mosque known as the Dome of the Rock was built.

                            The second theory (which I am convinced is the most accurate) is that the Temple was built north of the Dome of the Rock. Dr. Asher Kaufman developed this theory, using certain archeological evidences that he found before the Muslim's destroyed them. However, the most important archeological sign is the position of the Eastern Gate. According to ancient accounts of the Temple, its east-west centerline passed through the center of the Eastern Gate.

                            We have absolute evidence as to where the ancient Eastern Gate stood. I have viewed personally the remains of the ancient Eastern Gate, which is located under the modern Gate that was built on top of its ruins.

                            While photographing the area in 1983 for my book, "A Prophetical Walk Through The Holy Land," I sought to verify Dr. Kaufman's theory. I established the east-west centerline from the Eastern Gate. Then I received one of the most supernatural visitations of my life. My mind was suddenly flooded with a couple of verses that had been a mystery to me.

                            This is what I was shown. "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, 'Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.'" (Revelation 11:1-2 NIV) So I measured off the distance from the centerline to the point where the wall of the inner court would stand. There was at least 6 meters clearance from the nearest points of the Dome of the Rock and the Temple inner-court wall. The Apostle John clearly predicts that "the outer court was not to be included in the rebuilt Temple, because it was given to the Gentiles."

                            So what does all this mean? The Temple can be rebuilt and stand alongside the Dome of the Rock without disturbing it. And since the outer court, also known as the Court of the Gentiles, is given to the Gentiles in this period just before the Messiah comes, it infers that there would be a Gentile building there, i.e., the Dome of the Rock.

                            The fact that a re-established Sanhedrin is now considering the rebuilding of the Temple after 2,000 years is extremely important to students of Bible prophecy. I believe that we are very near the final climactic events that end with the Second Coming of Christ.


                            • Thank You HSB

                              Thank you HSB very much for digging up the word "mitnahlim" as being nearer to "settlers," than my "shakanim' which actually means dwellers as I explained.

                              HSB, if that word is in the biblical text, it is probably translated by another word in English, and the way that I could find out for sure, is if I were to see it written in Hebrew capitals: could you have your source to at least tell how it is written right-to-left in Hebrew letters, so that I might have a go at it--that would save me much effort. In the meantime, I am will try to translate the English "mitnahlim" into Hebrew characters, and see how close I can get. Most of all, I want to see if and where it occurs in the bible in the Hebrew text.

                              I appreciate your help in this HSB, and I am reminded that there is nothing which any of know that someone did not teach us, and that it all began when Adam repeated what he heard God speak.


                              • Hi, Lay it to Heart

                                Hi, Lay it to Heart

                                Only after a second-time of readihg what you said about what Ahab did, did I fully grasp the point which you made.

                                Yes: Ahab the king took the vineyard from its rightful owner, by political intrigue, and had him put to death. By the way, he also did not superintend the theft directly, but had his wife direct the "operation."

                                Well, Lay it to Heart, if dispossessing a Jew of his lawfully acquired land was one of the things for which God aimed an arrowed between the chink of his armor, and directly into Ahab's heart, then some other folks have a bitter price to pay, if they expel residents out of Gaza--especially considering that the would-be expellers today, are the very same ones, who in representing their government, encouraged the settlers to be where they are.