Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Sorry- couldn't help myself. happy 1000!!

PlumBob: The ZionOil drill site is just east of Caesarea and in Israel pre 1967 territory. Regarding the "wall" I find it fascinating that "walls" for protection have not been an issue for centuries...and now the idea of living inside or outside a wall is really important in Israel. A rabbit can walk over Hadrian's wall while access to the Great wall of China has been closed due to damage from too many tourists I understand. The difficult part of the passage revolves around the Hebrew word betach (I am interested in what the "original Greek" will tell you ) Normally it is translated safety or security but can also mean careless, confident, evn unsuspecting. In most cases in translation it is the context that helps inform the choice of words. The fact that people are dwelling peacefully can apply to the situation they are in, or to the folks themselves (ie peaceful people) in a "settled" manner. (ie settlements) The passage simply says they were dwelling without wall, gate. It does not say that they didn't need any protection. The assumption of most translators would of course be that would be the case..a life of "tranquility" as one version has it. I have sent a query to a Hebrew expert about the use of betach and hope that I get a reply. It's a little bit like asking for a legal opinion

[JudyAnn]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Great site, Don.....thank you so much for letting us know!!

This thread has been amazing.....so much information and fascinating insights! We just hit the 100 page mark and one more reply will put it at 1,000!!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob... I'm going to do something for you that will make you forever in my debt... but because I'm your Christian Brother, I'm going to cancel that debt. Here is what I am going to do...

If you go to... http://www.e-sword.net/ and download EVERYTHING in English, you will have about 32 Translations of the Bible, about 11 Commentaries (really great ones like Matthew Henry, Gill, Barnes etc.), all kinds of Maps, Graphics Charts... More than you are ever going to absorb in a lifetime... It's yours FREE for the Downloading... now you won't have to run off to the Library or the local Christian Book Store.

Blessings on anyone else who wants go do the same thing!!!

Love ya...

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob… nice to hear from you and I will follow your post, but I cannot promise to do it right away. What were your thoughts about HBS’s comments about “Un-walled Villages”? ...

I may try to read some of the oil article later tonite. We'll see.

Well, I think HSB's thought is a very interesting concept. I guess intuitively I could make the jump from being outside the wall to living in an "unwalled village" etc, fairly easily. I will have to go back and look at the specific scriptures again. ". . . but I cannot promise to do it right away" I would like very much to see what the original texts say, and then to see if whatever is there could be taken to be something close to "without protection." Seems to me that the verses speak to living in unwalled villages, in peace (presumed peace, of course) and safety. Again, I'll have to go look. It may take another trip to the local Christian bookstore, to flip through 23 versions of the verse, huh?

Wendyj, if memory serves me correctly, there are already gas wells that are currently producing, offshore. But I believe they are farther up the coast, toward Tel Aviv. I also had mused about them giving up productive land. HSB told us at one point that the location of the present drilling by Zion Oil is NOT in west bank land to be hand over. Interesting. But what if, indeed? Now wouldn't THAT start a spat!

ANDY - this whole board isn't going to crash and die when we get to P1K is it? (post 1,000) LOL

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

You know what would be a real kicker? --- If they find huge oil strikes in the land they just gave over to the loonies-PA, ie Gaza strip.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Snoopy… you are going to have to stop being so shy, reserved, and reticent. You really need to just come right out and express your thoughts in a forthright manner! Hay! I like the way you cut right to the quick of the issue. Right now you are throwing ‘Strikes’! To coin a phrase that might be current for the next week or so.

PlumBob… nice to hear from you and I will follow your post, but I cannot promise to do it right away. What were your thoughts about HBS’s comments about “Un-walled Villages”?

Blessings to all...

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I think that by the time that we the average Joe hears about something in the press or the Controlled media of your choosing (CNN FOXNEWS) the governments of the affected areas have already made there decisions and aligned there ducks in a row so to speak.
I think that in regards to why good ole George has done an about face in regards to Israel, is due partially in fact to the discovery of massive amounts of oil in the region. How can you negotiate for the best trade relations if you are aligning yourself with the enemy of Israel. I think Bush has got himself caught in the middle and will need his best spin doctors to help him out of yet another seemingly unavoidable disaster. How can the arrogance and incompetence of one man be so blatantly covered up and sold to the world, and worse yet, the world buy the lies. If I wasn't so cynical, I might just be paranoid.

Snoopy

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Don,

Zion Oil is presently trying to decide what to do w/ their first well in Israel, Ma'anit #1. http://www.zionoil.com It was a great deal more difficult and expensive than they had planned, and they've encountered other problems. I anticipate them abandoning it in the near future. But they have EXTENSIVE lease holdings, and will most likely go to another site if they have the funding.

I notice that they have posted a link to a rather large article concerning the Biblical basis for presuming there is oil under Israel. I haven't read it yet, so I don't know where it goes. http://www.zionoil.com/BiblicalTreasureHunt-Oct20.pdf

Read at your own risk, your mileage may vary

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Some time ago we were discussing the likelyhood of OIL being found in Israel... well folks... Read this!
======================================
Survey reveals possible large oil find in Jordan

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, October 21, 2005
AMMAN — An area of eastern Jordan could have reserves of up to 30 million barrels of oil.

Sonoran Energy has completed a comprehensive technical study of Jordan's Azraq block and determined that it could contain reserves of up to 30 million barrels of oil. Executives said the Azraq block, an area of 11,250 square kilometers, could comprise the largest oil find in the Hashemite kingdom.
Sonoran Energy president Peter Rosenthal, whose company has a 60 percent production share in Azraq, said other areas of Jordan could also contain significant oil reserves, Middle East Newsline reported. He said the company plans to assume operations of oil fields and enhance production.

"Not only do we believe the Azraq block contains oil reserves upwards of 30 million barrels, we believe there is an opportunity for the discovery of new structures that could add significantly to the resource potential," Rosenthal said.
=================================
There is an ever-growing demand for this liquid gold, and the Middle East is swiming in it! Perhaps the hook-in-the-jaw is made of OIL?

Blessings:

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Wow... I think it was PlumBob who said in an earlier comment... how quickly things change in this World we all presently inhabit... Overnight the great pressure tactics of the USA have quite literally reversed polarity and now it is Mahmoud Abbas who is feeling the squeeze!

I’m not sure if this is a change on George’s part or not. It surly does put tremendous pressure on Abbas, while taking a whole lot of pressure off of Sharon… however; if George has any aspirations of going down in History as the man who brought peace to the Middle East, can he do anything other than put pressure on Abbas at this time? The Palestinians at some time have to at least look like they can become a State… SOOooo… until they can demonstrate something that looks like peace in Gaza, how can the UN / USA press Israel for more concessions for Land?

Ah! Now comes the rub… I agree with HSB here, Israel may now having gotten the mechanisms moving commencing with Gaza, and continuing into the West Bank, may have to let the process run its course… and pull all of its forces [IDF] back behind the Wall, leaving the Orthodox Jews in un-walled villages on their own. It has always bothered me how the expression in Ezekiel referencing the un-walled cities could apply to this current process now unfolding before our collective eyes… HSB… I think your insight here is brilliant! And I would even venture that He may very well have revealed this possibility to you… insight is one way of explaining how He makes His revelations known to His Children.

What chaos would ensue, with armed bands of thugs and terrorists wrecking havoc on one and all throughout these “Mountains of Israel”! The approximate one-third of Israeli’s living in Israel [Orthodox] live on the wrong side of the Wall! The whole situation is in reverse to Ancient Israel who occupied the Mountains while the Philistines occupied the low-Land. Will God, who is calling His People back to His Mountains allow such a travesty to unfold? Will the “Mountains of Israel” become the ‘Mountains of Palestine’? I think not!

Jeremiah is addressing Jews ‘today’ who have been called back from ‘All the Nations to which you were dispersed’! It is here in this Land [the Land of their Fore-Fathers] Old Israel [The Israel of their first King (Saul) - in fact the West Bank] that he is talking about.

If this continues to unfold, and Sharron does draw his forces back behind the Wall, leaving the Orthodx Jew on his own… we may very well see God take up the responsibility for their protection as they have been obedient to His invitation to come home to the Land! Keep your eyes open, and Ezekiel right beside you, we are about to see Time take a very big step towards the “End-of-Days”!

Shalom…

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Looks like the pressure from USA on Israel is lessening. See Debka file below. The PA is in no position to form a state. However do not discount the distinct possibility of unilateral Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank, and abandonment of that area to the chaos that now exists in Gaza. Apparently nobody is taking responsibility to reign in the thugs of Hamas, so we may well end up with a "wild west" situation "beyond the wall". (photo below)




Bush to Abu Mazen: The Palestinians Must Start Helping Themselves

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

October 21, 2005, 10:00 PM (GMT+02:00)


Smiles, yes; state, no


The Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas did not get much chance to lay down his usual list of demands and gripes in his talks at the White House with US president George W. Bush Thursday, Oct. 20. Instead, in contrast to the jovial mood of their joint news conference, Bush crushed his visitor’s hopes of a Palestinian state in the foreseeable future. “Not during my term,” the president declared firmly, according to DEBKAfile’s Exclusive sources Washington.

Abu Mazen is described as coming out of the meeting pale and shaken, with nothing to show for his Washington trip. Most of their 45-minute conversation was one-sided. Bush scarcely let Abu Mazen get a word in edgeways, cutting him short several times.

According to our sources, the US president laid down a new set of rules, unfamiliar to the Palestinians. In a word, no one will help the Palestinians if they don’t help themselves – and that goes for me, the US President, too. If you think you can disarm Hamas by letting them take part in elections, go ahead, but you are on your own. We think you are making a big mistake, but we don’t interfere. But there is a price to pay. A regime dominated by terrorists cannot expected to be treated as a democracy.

He reminded Abbas that he was the first American president to envision an independent Palestinian state and make it a strategic goal of his foreign policy, but the Palestinians had not risen to the challenge. He informed Abbas that to achieve statehood, they must meet three categorical conditions:

A. A Palestinian state must live in peace with Israel.

B. Peace alone is not enough. The Palestinians must demonstrate they are capable of being good neighbors.

C. The Palestinian state must be clean of terrorism.

As matters stand now, said Bush, I see no prospect of Palestinian statehood coming into existence before I leave the White House.

The US president said he continued to support the Palestinian leader. However, his terms were the reverse of what Abbas wanted to hear.

1. Final-status negotiations must not begin yet. (This knocked on the head Abbas’ most cherished goal which is to skip the road map preliminaries and jump to the final stage.)

2. Washington is holding back the timeline for progress towards Palestinian independence. (This was a stunning setback for Abbas’ plans and his standing at home.)

3. The Middle East road map for peace will not for now be activated. It will remain on paper as long as Palestinian “armed gangs” are in charge.

Abu Mazen tried to put in a word on Palestinian demands, such as the unresolved status of the Egyptian-Gaza border crossings, a direct, sovereign Gaza-West Bank link, a halt on the Israeli defense barrier and various complaints, but Bush brushed him off, saying he is familiar with the problems and he leaves them to advisers – “Jim Wolfensohn,” or “General Ward.”

He gave some ground on the Palestinian demand for weapons and ammunition to arm their security forces, but said this would have to wait until a new military coordinator takes over from General Ward. The US president said he was still looking for a suitable candidate, a military man with the right intelligence background who worked well with the CIA. He also agreed to raise the granting of more economic concessions with Ariel Sharon.

All in all, the meeting ended without results or decisions.

Outside, when they both faced reporters, President Bush took advantage of a question put by a Palestinian correspondent to drive home his new message. Asked if a Palestinian state would come about during his term as president, he replied: My purpose is to lay the foundations for a state. Whether it comes about or not is not my problem; is up to the Palestinians.

Clearly the US president has taken several steps back from his first concept of Palestinian statehood as a top American policy goal. He is leaving it to the Palestinians to make the running. For the first time, they have been put clearly and firmly on notice that as long as they harbor terrorists, they can forget about attaining their own state

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Jan Markell of Olive Tree Ministries sent this . It is who she is interviewing this weekend. Some of you have talked about he Ezekiel Option so I thought I would send this.

RADIO THIS WEEKEND: Joel Rosenberg, author of "The Ezekiel Option," Laurent Murawiec, author of "Princes of Darkness: The Saudi Assault on the West", and Dr. Ron Rhodes on the rise of false religions. Listen live on line at www.kkms.com, then click on "Listen Live." All programming goes up on "radio archives" at www.olivetreeviews.org by Monday of the following week. Dial up users should have no problem. We headquarter out of AM980 KKMS, Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, Saturday 9-11 AM CST with a rebroadcast Sunday, 12-2 PM CST. Visit our Web site for live and tape-delayed listening options and cities.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Folks: I have been thinking long and hard recently about Gog's arrival in Israel. Most Bible translators indicate that Ezekiel 38:11 means the inhabitants are living in safety (and have no need of walls or gates) and rest. Notice the frequent references in the passage to "land of unwalled villages", "dwelling without walls" etc. A terrible thought came to me...what if this passage is describing people who have been FORCED to live outside a Security Wall, ie on the wrong side of a protective barrier. The passage takes on a whole different meaning. Perhaps the prophet is actually describing a situation that is about to emerge in Israel (unparalleled since medieval times when the city gates closed at night) Suppose there is a disengagement from the west bank that abandons all the settlements "outside the wall". I started to dig around some old posts on WEDG and found the following from a year ago. ZionGene was commenting in his thread on Gog/Magog, a phrase by phrase literal English translation directly from the Hebrew for Ezekiel 38:11.

Now here is my phrase-by-phrase literal English translation of the what I tried to include above, but could not.

And you will say / I will go up / upon (or against) the land / rural regions I will enter / the settled areas (or settlements) / dwellings for protection / all of them for settlings / nowhere protection / no way of escape / no exit / nowhere for them.

Think of this in light of the comments I made about living "outside the wall" in terms of the Security Wall/fence/gate system that Israel is implementing as part of a unilateral withdrawal from most of the West Bank. I will try and find a nice little photo of "The Wall" to add to this commentary.

Folks we are getting really close to the exact literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39, I believe within the next 2 years. Settlers living in "unwalled settlements" are going to be left to turn in the wind. Gog will then arrive on cue. Make sure your earthquake insurance is paid up!!!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Well 'Hello" to all of you.... it's been a while... it took me over an hour of continuous reading just to catch up with where I last input. My how the whole Thread has come around again to... Is it Russia [most of Christendom sits here] or is it USA [very few but growing group here].

I think that your point, HSB; that to arrive at Russia one must follow the People's of former Gog & MaGog as they move geographically north to where Moscow resides today, and even further north to the Siberian border. Why then do we not do the same for the original People from whom the Pharaoh’s originated... would that mean because they are no longer there, that Egypt is really geographically somewhere else??? So why do we accept this line of thought for Russia as Gog?

Quote from HSB... It is even easier to conclude that TBL refers as it originally did to Tibilisi (TBL) the capital of the country of Georgia, and Mesheck to Mts'kheta (the ancient capital of Georgia which is close by, in the very area Gog and magog occupied in Ezekiel's time. Incidentally there are huge airbases there that during the cold war were occupied by Russian forces but now thanks to the War on Terror and Georgia leaving the USSR confederation are now happily being used by US forces, with huge stockpiles of American equipment.

The sand in the hour-glass is running out! If time were a Clock on the wall... it is now 11:59 and the second hand is already ticking off the remaining seconds of time... how far are we from 'Mid-Night'? Only He knows for sure, but He has given us His Word. "They" too had His Word at the time that it became flesh and dwelt amoung us... but 'they' missed Him. I wonder how many who have thought that it is all nailed down will be surprised at the way things finally do turn out.

Know this... The King of Babylon New York is in CONTROL of Babylon Iraq. The only two Babylon's in our modern Atlas are under ONE MAN's CONTROL... and he does not reside in Russia!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Here is some "helpful" advice from the left-wing Peace Now group in Israel. It is interesting to review the list of settlements that they are recommending be abandoned. These include Elon Morea..that's the mountain that God showed Abraham all the Promised land. It is just north-east of Shekem (Nablus) in Samaria. My wife and I had the opportunity to climb to the top of this mountain in May. Truly an outstanding view of what is about to be taken away from the rightful heirs of the promise. HSB
PS Hebron of course was the city that Caleb wanted from Joshua after the original conquest of the land. It became the capital of Judah, and that was where King David reigned for 7 years before moving up to Jerusalem. I was privileged in May to be shown the excavations of the original Israelite city foundations and gate. Oh..by the way that is where Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebbekah, Jacob and Leah are all buried. I'm sure the Palestinians will take good care of their grave sites, just about the same way they took care of Joseph's tomb in Nablus (mob wrecked and burned the place just after the IDF left it in PA police hands) Let's not be too hard on them...no doubt they were just getting some of their frustrations out!
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Last update - 18:15 19/10/2005
Peace Now proposal: Evacuate isolated settlements in W. Bank
By Lili Galili, Haaretz Correspondent

Peace Now on Wednesday announced its new initiative calling on Israel to immediately withdraw from 26 settlements throughout the West Bank.

The initiative's first goal is to "raise awareness to the problematic nature of the West Bank settlements," Peace Now members told the media.

"Netzarim and Kfar Darom were settlements whose problems the public was aware of, unlike those (settlements) in the West Bank whose problematic nature the public does not know of," Peace Now representatives said.

The settlements on Peace Now's list are situated mostly east of the separation fence and are relatively isolated within large concentrations of Palestinian settlements, and include Alon Moreh, Hermesh, Itzar, Itamar, Kfar Tapoah, Dolev, Tekoa and Ma'alah Amos, among others. Evacuating these settlements would give the Palestinians territorial continuity in the southern Hebron area and southern Samaria, Peace Now explained.

According to Dror Etkes, the head of Peace Now's settlements tracking committee, the most pressing issue at the moment is the evacuation of the Jewish settlement in Hebron.

Etkes complained that GOC Central Command has been suspending his authorization of a request submitted by Peace Now activists to tour the area.