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  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

    Happy Birthday... ZionGene!!!

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    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

      From Tamar Yonah -

      "Shalom PlumBob,
      Thank you for your letter.
      I know how to translate what you want, but I don't think that I should do this in that I don't think that calling G-d, a name that is limiting is positive thing. I know your heart holds enormous love for Israel and the Jewish People, but G-d is the Father of us all. Not just of one population. I beleive the best thing you and your fellow worshippers can do is to pray that G-d bles the Jews who Love the Land of Israel, to bless them, strengthen them, and let them win with joy and love. Please pray that the evil doers fail utterly in their evil deeds and that they see the light and return to G-d. Please pray that no one suffers from the folly of Israel's Knesset Members, and please pray that G-d tells America and its government not to shove this evil plan down our throats, and that He bless America with goodness and strengthens the good people there, to make Bush and his puppeteers withdraw from their evil plans and double standards.

      Thanks so much for your support. i know there are many good Christians out there and G-d bless you!
      Tamar"
      ". . . for the time has come for you to awaken from your slumber. . ." Romans 13:11

      Comment


      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

        PlumBob, that is great.

        You got through to Tamar, and I appreciate her charitable and broad spirit.

        She seems afraid of my limiting God to a specific group, if I come up with El HaTikveh Shakanim, or something like that. Yet, if that line of reasoning is followed to its logical conclusion, then it could be reasoned, that to refer to God as The God Of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is somehow exclusive and racist: and we know that that is a false notion. Yet, I have profound respect for the honest insight of Jewish people concerning a spiritual question, and I remind myself that they are so cautious about His names, that they call Him Ha Shem--The Name--and some of them only use the abbreviated G-d in writing. Would to God we Gentiles believers respected the name of Jesus Christ half as much as that

        Talking about the names of God: it is interesting that He added Jehovah just before the Exodus event. yet, in the case of Hagar, He got His new name after the rescue of her son. I tell you what I am going to do. If God comes through dramatically for the settlers in Gush Katif and Gaza very soon, I will be back picking the brains of Tamar Yonah.

        It is a good thing to subject one's bright ideas to the scrutuny of other people

        Comment


        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

          MichaelJ - thanks for the explanation. Got it! All so very interesting.

          ZionGene, yeah, I thought the note from Tamar was very nice. She's clearly not a happy camper w/ all that is going on.

          Now - moving forward,

          Over the last few posts someone mentioned two words that have been nagging at my mind -

          Big disclaimer here, I’m writing this before I’ve thoroughly thought it through, so I’m not sure where it will wind up, but here we go.

          HSB, I think it was you that said something about “civil war” and the possibility of a “coup” in Israel. This is totally non-prophetic, but I’m impressed that perhaps we need to at least go thru the mental gyrations of-

          Civil war - coups, if you will - are really not all that uncommon, are they. Those of us in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Western Europe, Australia, Japan, etc. haven’t experienced one in our lifetimes, but shoot, my Great-Grandfather PlumBob went to Texas from Alabama when? After the “Civil War.” And on the other side of my family, Great-Great-Uncle Andrew died in 1836 defending the Alamo - another “Civil War.”

          I’ve often remarked, both to myself and to others, how fortunate we are here in the United States to have a military force that is so dedicated to our system of law, and principles of democracy. That being said, it certainly would be possible for our military, given the right “cause” and persuasion of leadership, to simply drive some tanks up to the White House and Capital, and say - “Gentlemen, please get in the car. You’re no longer in control.” I don’t think for a minute that the Secret Service or Capitol Police has the where-with-all to stop the US Military.

          Here’s where I’m going. What would be the geo-political implications of a “civil war” - coup, if you will - in Israel? Taken completely out of prophetical context, let me propose some things to ponder.

          If the IDF were to simply displace the Kinesset - for the purpose of derailing the disengagement plan - some possibilities might be, among others:

          1) The United States (secular government) could find the new power in Jerusalem to be something that they would rather deal with, than the old Israeli secular government. I haven’t completely settled on what the attractive attributes of a new (perhaps now more Orthodox) government in Israel might be to the US, but there’s always that possibility.

          2) Quite the opposite. The United States could find the concept of a new militarily-imposed government in Israel, no matter what the logic behind it’s creation, unpalatable. If that were the case, again, I haven’t completely settled on what the reaction (spell that actions) of the US might be.

          3) It probably goes without saying that the Muslem countries around Israel would not be happy. What would they do? (We know what they would think, and say.) Would Iran try to nuke Israel? Would Israel respond in kind?

          4) What would the European countries think, and more importantly, do, if all of a sudden, a militarily-imposed Jewish government were to decide that it wasn’t the Jews who should leave the West Bank and Gaza, but the Arabs, instead.

          My disquiet is further compounded by what I think we all are recognizing as a not-too-subtle shift in US policy of late. I’m completely flabbergasted. I’m completely “bum-fuzzeled.” (Boy, the spell-checker won’t like that!)

          Anyway, once we might get through the machinations of the extra-prophetic implications, then it might be worth thinking through the prophetic implications of the possible world reactions. Thinking as I type, I don’t think I see any end here, other than the same end we’ve been discussing since HSB’s post #1. The end.

          Thoughts?
          ". . . for the time has come for you to awaken from your slumber. . ." Romans 13:11

          Comment


          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

            PlumBob: You have the wisdom of Socrates, always asking really good questions. First of all though, a tip o' the hat to your ancestry. To have had a PlumBob ancestor involved in the US Civil War not to mention another ancestor die with Davey Crockett (or did he actually surrender to Santa Anna?) is wonderful. Both these personalitites would no doubt be "bum-fuzzeled" as well at what is happening in the world today.

            When I mentioned the threat of Civil War or coup in Israel, I mentioned it as a significant thing to be avoided- thus I reasoned that the senior leadership in the military would not put their troops in the position of having to decide what were "lawful orders" or not. Every good military leader has at least one eye looking back over the shoulder to make sure the troops are following right behind. Having said that I am now thinking of what you put forth.

            We tend to think that the highest form of government is democracy, rule by the mob (sorry I meant the majority). It has afforded relatively painless transfer of power down through the years from one adminisitration to another so there is much to be said for it. Don't discount even the humour of counting vote "chads" in the greater scheme of things. Let's remember that one of the earliest examples in the Bible where a "vote" was taken, involved the spies going into the Promised Land. The majority report had more than 2/3 support (namely 10 out of 12) so the decision went with them. And yet who among us would not agree that in that case it was a terrible decision that got made, taking another 40 years to set right. The problem of course with replacing democracy is "with what?" Does anybody think that Jesus will reign on earth using a parliamentary or congressional democratic system? Doubt it!!

            So what can replace the present secular government in Israel? Only a system based on religious authority, like the Sanhedrin of yesteryear. It was that system however that condemned Jesus to death. I don't think that a monarchy will work either, although there has been some press reports of folks looking for that in Israel as a solution.

            If there is a crisis in Israel and the government system were to collapse, people might turn the religious authorities, but probably only a minority.That's the problem right now- the secular folks make up a majority. I don't hink that a US government would recognize such a replacement system for one minute. The Arab states would probably be more conciliatory, given the fact that all of them are run by either religious or military authorities presently.

            I don't see any clear alternatives AT THIS POINT, until the present system is totally discreditted. Let me suggest a possible way this could happen however. Under huge economic blackmail pressure from EU and America (let's face it folks, that is what is driving Sharon) an Arab Palestinian state gets proclaimed and starts to be implemented. God intervenes and smashes the implementation. Don't be surprised even to see the long lost Ark of the Covenant make a reentry. Now if the religious leaders rallied around the Ark and claimed to have been given divine authority to act, Israelis would have a MEGACRISIS on their hands. I suspect most Jews would say "Let's follow the Ark and trust the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob"

            PlumBob thanks for asking such "out of the box" challenging questions. What do you see "coming down the pike". I'm sure Great grandad PlumBob would be really proud of you!

            Comment


            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

              HSB -

              I don’t know whether Grandfather PlumBob actually fought in the Civil War or not. But he went to Texas from Alabama in 1865 or ‘66, after the war. Uncle Andrew was one of the 105 or so Tennessee Volunteers who went to Texas with Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone. The (place hand over heart) Republic of Texas (remove hand) later awarded land grants to the heirs of the Alamo defenders. In 1844, Andrew’s unmarried adult sister went to Texas and claimed the land grant - my Great-Great-Grandmother.

              What do I think?
              I think we should incorporate, and go into business. “Ezekiel’s Think Tank” or something like that. We could get contracts w/ the CIA, MI5, and Mossad.

              What do I REALLY think?
              I think that the real action of the IDF will be something more like a “sit-down strike.” The sacking of most of the IDF senior command tells me that they (secular government) are setting the IDF up to have little or no role. W/O strong command leadership either way, it’s much easier to do the politically acceptable thing - “In the spirit of cooperation, we’ve invited a multi-national peace keeping force of the United Nations to oversee this operation. We have full faith in our partners from . . .” Fiat accompli. I may be wrong. If IDF really were to pull off a coup, though, you’d get to the same place, only a few months (weeks, maybe) further down the time line. The only other possibility that I see is another dispersal of the Jews, in which case we can all go home and watch a movie. In other words, unless we see some new and unusual development within the next say 4 - 10 weeks, it’s a done deal. Two months ago I would have severely questioned the timing, but at the speed this thing is rolling along now, I think “timing” is not an issue. The process has too much momentum, now. The process probably “. . .cannot be unmade by any craft that we here possess,” and will have to play out fully, “. . .for good, or for ill,” “. . . for the Doom of us all.”
              ". . . for the time has come for you to awaken from your slumber. . ." Romans 13:11

              Comment


              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                HSB...

                Near the end of your post, you referenced the possibility of finding the Ark... well I believe that Jeremiah addressed that possibility in Ch#3 and verse 16 [Note another one of the "3:16's" of Scripture]... Here he states that... "And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more."

                Then in Amos 9:11, we read that... "In that day I will raise up the Tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I shall raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

                So you see, it is not likely the Ark that will be found, but more likely the Tabernacle [buried; wrapped in seal(s) or porpois(s) skins (water-tight) and in a very dry climate] perfect for maintaining it over a long period of time.[I][U]

                It will still have the same effect on Israel... I believe that the Nation will once again be called to GILGAL, and there they will decide that Israel is not a Democracy, but rather a Theocracy... God is again on their side and it is time to go and build Him His House again!!! Watch out for another short War as the Arabs go 'balistic'!!!

                Comments?
                Last edited by Don Brooks; 03-19-2005, 03:35 PM.

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                • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                  Don-the-Baptist,

                  Somewhere, sometime within the last day or two, I saw something (how's that for not knowing anything about what I'm talking about?) by either Hal Lindsey or Jack Kinsella, to the effect that we could see the 3rd Temple erected on the Temple Mount - along w/ the Dome of the Rock. Not necessary to remove DoTR, according to the article. And proposed that the two, sitting side-by-side could be a part of a peace deal.
                  ". . . for the time has come for you to awaken from your slumber. . ." Romans 13:11

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42898

                    Revived Sanhedrin discusses Temple

                    Posted: February 17, 2005
                    1:00 a.m. Eastern


                    © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


                    Two remarkable developments took place recently that are extremely relevant to students of Bible prophecy.

                    For the first time in 1,600 years, the Israeli Sanhedrin was re-established. It occurred in Tiberius, the site of the Sanhedrin's last meeting in AD 425.


                    On Jan. 20, IsraelNN.com reported:


                    A unique ceremony – probably only the second of its kind in the past 1,600 years – is taking place in Tiberius today: The launching of a Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the land of Israel.

                    The Sanhedrin, a religious assembly that convened in one of the Holy Temple chambers in Jerusalem [before AD 70], comprised 71 sages and existed during the Tannaitic period, from several decades before the Common Era until roughly 425 C.E.

                    Details of today's ceremony are still sketchy, but the organizers' announced their intention to convene 71 rabbis who have received special rabbinic ordination as specified by Maimonides.


                    These religious authorities believe it was necessary to re-establish the Sanhedrin because only this properly ordained body of sages can authenticate a Messiah when he comes. There is a growing expectation of the long-awaited Messiah to appear among devout Jews. The rebirth of the Jewish state and recapture of Jerusalem has increasingly influenced this conviction.

                    On Feb. 9, just a few weeks after the Sanhedrin's re-establishment, another enormously important development took place. The religious sages began to consider the rebuilding of the Temple and reinstitution of ancient animal sacrifices as prescribed in the Law of Moses.

                    The first step toward facilitating this monumental endeavor was to seek to determine the exact location of the Temple's foundation. Sanhedrin spokesman Rabbi Chaim Richman told Arutz-7:


                    It is appropriate that the Sanhedrin convened to discuss this lofty matter of the Temple's location this week ... the Sanhedrin continues to move toward strengthening the nation of Israel.

                    As all these things happen all around us, the Sanhedrin is researching ways to renew the deepest roots of our faith – to renew Temple service, reunite Jewish legal tradition and inspire the Jewish people to aspire to greatness. Our people have one path before us, and we will continue to march toward our destiny.


                    Sanhedrin member Rabbi Yisrael Ariel is the most ardent believer that the Temple is to be rebuilt in this generation. He is the former Yeshiva head, founder of the Temple Institute, and one of the paratroopers who took part in the 1967 liberation of the Temple Mount. He said:


                    People today ask, "Who are we in this generation to even consider building the Temple?" But in this week's Torah portion we see that the commandment to build a Temple was given to Jews who had just sinned and committed idolatry in the Sin of the Golden Calf. The fact is that what God requires in this world is for regular people to do their best. That is what we are trying to do.


                    The most difficult problem is to determine with certainty exactly where the previous Temple's foundations are. Muslims have not allowed Israeli archeologists to do archeological research on the Temple grounds. As a matter of fact, the Muslim custodians of this area, which they believe is their Third Holiest site, have systematically sought to destroy and remove any archeological evidence of Israel ever having a Temple there.

                    The Sanhedrin determined that there are only two viable theories as to where the Temple stood. One teaches that the Temple stood on the same basic site on which the Muslim mosque known as the Dome of the Rock was built.

                    The second theory (which I am convinced is the most accurate) is that the Temple was built north of the Dome of the Rock. Dr. Asher Kaufman developed this theory, using certain archeological evidences that he found before the Muslim's destroyed them. However, the most important archeological sign is the position of the Eastern Gate. According to ancient accounts of the Temple, its east-west centerline passed through the center of the Eastern Gate.

                    We have absolute evidence as to where the ancient Eastern Gate stood. I have viewed personally the remains of the ancient Eastern Gate, which is located under the modern Gate that was built on top of its ruins.

                    While photographing the area in 1983 for my book, "A Prophetical Walk Through The Holy Land," I sought to verify Dr. Kaufman's theory. I established the east-west centerline from the Eastern Gate. Then I received one of the most supernatural visitations of my life. My mind was suddenly flooded with a couple of verses that had been a mystery to me.

                    This is what I was shown. "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, 'Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.'" (Revelation 11:1-2 NIV) So I measured off the distance from the centerline to the point where the wall of the inner court would stand. There was at least 6 meters clearance from the nearest points of the Dome of the Rock and the Temple inner-court wall. The Apostle John clearly predicts that "the outer court was not to be included in the rebuilt Temple, because it was given to the Gentiles."

                    So what does all this mean? The Temple can be rebuilt and stand alongside the Dome of the Rock without disturbing it. And since the outer court, also known as the Court of the Gentiles, is given to the Gentiles in this period just before the Messiah comes, it infers that there would be a Gentile building there, i.e., the Dome of the Rock.

                    The fact that a re-established Sanhedrin is now considering the rebuilding of the Temple after 2,000 years is extremely important to students of Bible prophecy. I believe that we are very near the final climactic events that end with the Second Coming of Christ.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                      PlumBob...

                      Yes, I've read that too... Actually there are three "possibilities" for the Third Temple. One as you have indicated just North of the Dome-of-the-Rock... One right where the Dome-of-the-Rock is now... And finally One very much further South, actually south of the Steps and the ritual baths... On a Foundation that is no longer there. If you want, I can send you a picture... in this view, it is thought that the existing Temple Mount Area was used by the Roman Soldiers [as their encampment] with a temple to Zeus right where the current Dome-of-the-Rock is located... Wow... Who knows for sure???

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                      • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                        THANKS, Janet....

                        You saved my bacon...

                        That was it, the Hal Lindsey article in WND

                        Whew
                        ". . . for the time has come for you to awaken from your slumber. . ." Romans 13:11

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                          Janet…
                          Wow… that is “[{(Fantastic)}]”… The Sanhedrin re-established!!! And in our time!!!

                          Num 11:11-17 And Moses said unto the LORD, Wherefore hast thou afflicted thy servant? and wherefore have I not found favour in thy sight, that thou layest the burden of all this people upon me? Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers? Whence should I have flesh to give unto all this people? for they weep unto me, saying, Give us flesh, that we may eat. I am not able to bear all this people alone, because it is too heavy for me. And if thou deal thus with me, kill me, I pray thee, out of hand, if I have found favour in thy sight; and let me not see my wretchedness. And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee. And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

                          Moses is a picture of the Christian who understands God’s will, but tries to do it in his own power, and keeps coming back to God and stating… I can’t do this alone!!! He never understood that God had equipped him to do the whole job... God never expected Moses to do the job himself... in fact it was impossible for Moses to do God's will in his own strength... his conclusion about himself was correct. The same is true of us today... God not only has a Plan for us, but He wants to Live that Plan through us. We can never do what He has planned in our own strength... But... OH! What a ride, when we give Him ALL of us... our tongue, our hands, our feet, our ALL... then He does more through us than was ever possible in ourselves... We accomplish more, we see Him working, and we know that He must get the Glory because it is so far beyond what we are capable of ourselves... I know its true, its happened to me!

                          This, group of seventy + Moses making seventy-one is the origin of the Sanhedrin… it is this man – envisioned [Jethro (Father-in-Law’s) advice to Moses] assistance for Moses, that becomes the very body that missed Jesus as Messiah, and turned the “Son-of-God” over to the Romans… Wow! It is so very easy to let our old natures get back into control of our lives... that is why we must not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds!!! Saints who occasionally sin.
                          Last edited by Don Brooks; 02-18-2005, 04:49 PM.

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                          • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                            Plum Bob: Somebody better be talking to the CIA, Mossad etc pretty soon about what they are messing with!!! I happen to agree with you that this disengagement thing is now too far down the tracks and too promising for a solution to the Middle East mess to stop it now using traditional political means. I saw an article today in ArutzSheva that non Jews are being trained to help with the uprooting. Gaza is nothing compared to the mess of uprooting communities like Ariel (where incidentally we will be based for 3 days in May). A large helping force will be needed. With broad representation it will show that the entire world is united in this, and willing to assist removing the Jews from their own ancestral lands.

                            http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=77140

                            I like the idea of an ETT (Ezekiel Think Tank)!! The reason this topic persists is that the implications are so frightful, and because the scene is playing out before us on a daily basis. Fortunately no one has yet posted a simple message that "You folks should get out more often"!! I think given the 3500 odd hits that this thread has chalked up that there are a lot of concerned people out there.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                              But you know HSB, most people are afraid to say!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

                                To: Don the Baptist: thanks for the info. I happen to think that Jeremiah 3:16 is referring to the Messianic reign period when folks will no longer care about the Ark or even remember it (simply since the Lord Himself will be in their midst) Today people actually still do remember the Ark and care a whole lot about its existence, after so many centuries. There are a number of Jewish sources indicating that the Ark has been seen etc. I happen to believe that during the conclusion of the first Temple period that Jeremiah himself supervised the hiding of the Ark, Tabernacle, Golden altar etc. I think this will all be found together (and soon!) What a comotion that find would make!! it would certainly not all end up in the Israeli Antiquities display either. It would be pressed back into actual service. Interesting to note that no Temple is actually required to reestablish the ritual system in Jerusalem, only a Tabernacle and altar. This just happens to be my own opinion in this matter (but I can tell you there are folks looking for this motherload as we speak, and they think they are very close!!)

                                To PlumBob re the government system: Imagine what chaos there would be if the Orthodox Jews unveiled some of this ancient furniture and claimed that they were establishing a theocracy in Israel....
                                Last edited by HSB; 02-18-2005, 05:48 PM.

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