Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Now Arutz Sheva has picked up the Sharon plan to disengage unilaterally after the next election. See below. HSB

http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=93725

Sharon Plans Massive Withdrawals
11:55 Nov 27, '05 / 25 Cheshvan 5766
By Hillel Fendel



Reports are increasing that Prime Minister Sharon has drafted a plan for Israel's withdrawal from almost all of Judea and Samaria by 2008.



Middle East Newsline (MENL) reports in the name of "political sources" that Sharon has begun briefing senior U.S. officials of his intention to withdraw unilaterally from more than 95% of Judea and Samaria. Sharon is hoping to be elected Prime Minister for a third time - this time not in the Likud, however, but as head of his new Kadima Party.

One of the most valuable "acquisitions" of the Kadima Party, MK Chaim Ramon, formerly of Labor, said openly last week that Sharon will unilaterally
withdraw to final borders in Judea and Samaria if Palestinian terror continues. IMRA reported that Ramon said this on a live interview on Channel 10's "London and Kirschenbaum" news program just hours after he announced his decision to join Sharon's Kadima.

Ramon explained that Sharon will keep his plans secret until the elections because he wants to give the Road Map a chance.

Many public figures said, both immediately before and after Sharon's decision to quit the Likud, that this decision stems from his desire to carry out dramatic diplomatic moves that he knows the Likud would not approve. Among those who have said this are Binyamin Netanyahu, former Ashkelon Mayor and long-time Sharon confidante Eli Landau, Likud ministers, and others.

The MENL report indicates that Sharon would seek a U.S. and international security presence in Judea and Samaria, as well as yet another commitment for the dismantling of Palestinian terrorist groups.

Sharon's reported plan is to order a unilateral withdrawal, at first, from more than 90% of Judea and Samaria, while retaining control over air space. The pullout would be accompanied by a pledge of an additional withdrawal, as well as full Palestinian independence, once the PA dismantles terrorist groups and maintains security cooperation with Israel. The MENL sources said a version of the plan has already been drafted by Israel's National Security Council.
Though Sharon has denied that he plans any further disengagements, he pledged last week to "lay the foundation for a peace in which we set the permanent borders of the state, while insisting on the dismantling of the terror organizations."

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

...Sharon, who quit the ruling Likud Party on Nov. 21, would seek a U.S. and international security presence in the area as well as a commitment for the dismantling of Palestinian insurgency groups...

If the US can't stop insurgency groups in Iraq what makes anybody think we could stop them in Israel?

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Time to stir the soup again folks. See below part of an article concerning a unilateral withdrawal from the west bank by 2008. Pray that US ground forces are NOT involved in this cake walk to absolute disaster!!

SHARON PREPARES MAJOR WITHDRAWAL


TEL AVIV [MENL] -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has drafted a plan for a withdrawal from virtually all of the West Bank by 2008.

Political sources said Sharon has begun briefing senior U.S. officials of his intention to withdraw unilaterally from more than 95 percent of the West Bank. They said Sharon, who quit the ruling Likud Party on Nov. 21, would seek a U.S. and international security presence in the area as well as a commitment for the dismantling of Palestinian insurgency groups.

"His decision [to quit the Likud] stems from his desire to bring the state of Israel to permanent borders during his term of office," Eli Landau, a longtime confidante of Sharon, said. "He knows that this step will be a dramatic one." [HSB Aside: Sharon has absolutely NO idea how "dramatic" this whole thing is about to get!!!]

The sources said Sharon's plan was based on an assessment that the Palestinian Authority was not prepared to sign a formal peace agreement with Israel. They said that under this scenario Sharon would order a unilateral withdrawal from more than 90 percent of the West Bank, but retain control over air space.

http://www.menewsline.com/stories/20...r/11_25_2.html

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Don't look for any changes to the unilateral evacuation of the West bank if Peretz gets elected:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/647798.html

Peretz's disengagement


Last week, a few days after being elected as leader of the Labor Party, MK Amir Peretz - along with MKs Yuli Tamir and Ilana Cohen - submitted to the Knesset a new bill for the "voluntary evacuation of the residents of Judea and Samaria [the northern West Bank]." According to the bill, if at least 60 percent of the residents of a community located in the West Bank express their agreement to be evacuated, the government will evacuate that community within no more than six months from the time the residents make their request. According to another clause, the community will be subject to the compensation agreements as defined in the law governing the implementation of the disengagement from the Gaza Strip and the northern West Bank.

The initiators of this legislation say that the disengagement plan constituted a tangible example of the state's ability to produce a suitable system of compensation for residents evacuated from their homes. The bill, they say, will make possible the creation of an appropriate and reasonable framework for a graduated evacuation over time, without compelling residents to move to temporary housing and while saving a considerable amount of resources.


Meanwhile, a survey by the Bayit Echad ("One Home") movement released Saturday shows that some 25 percent of West Bank settlers are prepared to receive compensation and to leave the settlements in which they are living immediately. The movement, headed by MKs Avshalom Vilan from Meretz-Yahad and Colette Avital from Labor, is presenting an initiative for the unilateral evacuation of settlers on an individual basis. The bill that these two MKs will present to the Knesset this week is meant to assist settlers who were enticed to establish their homes in the occupied territories, by providing alternative housing within the Green Line.

Peretz's legislation says that incentives for the continued voluntary evacuation of Israeli citizens located in the West Bank will help leverage the successful implementation of the disengagement plan for the purposes of the continued push forward toward final-status agreements. Peretz and his colleagues see the law as a "tailwind" for additional evacuation processes, apparently even in settlements whose residents will refuse to agree to be evacuated. They say the bill will help "remove obstacles liable to stand in the way of future final-status agreements."

As the bill indicates, Peretz's decision to adopt Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement concept and apply it to the West Bank is not an alternative to negotiations on the final-status arrangement, but a step that accompanies a more ambitious and comprehensive political initiative. Despite the criticism his friends have heaped on him, Peretz did not retract his declaration of loyalty to the Oslo Accords. It appears, therefore, that it has been determined that if the election results allow it, he will aspire to make every effort to resolve the conflict via dialogue. Nonetheless, his hasty decision to adopt a bill based on a unilateral process is a hint that the Labor candidate for prime minister is not deterred from unilateral processes - practical processes likely to help advance the region toward a comprehensive settlement in the future.

The bill will probably not be ready for consideration during the current Knesset term. This ensures that in the next Knesset, the Labor Party - whether it is in the government or in the opposition - will support every initiative to take Israel out of additional West Bank territories, with Palestinian partners to a comprehensive peace agreement, but even without them.

[JudyAnn]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB.....the insights and information you provide to this thread are informative and fascinating!! Everytime I log on, I look for updates to this thread. I wish I had more to contribute but don't feel knowledgable enough.

I appreciate the maps of the partition wall. I didn't realize how it was dividing the actual communities within Gush Etzion...... the people must feel so helpless! As one person stated in the article, the wall is now being called the partition wall rather than the security wall because it will only divide and not provide security.

I am amazed at how fast everything is falling into place. I feel 2006 is going to be a bumpy year and agree with your statement:
" We need to be praying that God will look after His children in whatever lies ahead, and that repentance occurs before horrific judgment falls."

Looking up!
Judy

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB: if you are ever out on the Island ie. Vancouver Island, I would love to invite you and family over to my house for a visit with Sandi L and Helene. What a great time we would have? I know you were on Hornby or some other local island recently--I'm sorry I let that opportunity slip by.

WEndy

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hi Wendy: the second link given provides a list of presentations, simulations, etc. Assuming you have Quick Time click on the one concerning the American Museum Lecture of November 3rd, 2005. It is a sobering presentation showing tsunami formation from earthquakes, asteroid and landslides (the big threat turns out to be the La Palma island that is waiting to slide). In light of what is going on in Israel..and the biggest earthquake we have ever felt coming soon, there may well be a direct connection. Seems to me that Ezekiel covers that potential in 38:20.

Regarding trip to Israel, it would be great if you ended up going with Helene. I really hope you get a chance to visit while there is still some time left. Shalom

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB:

In regards to your comments about "shutting up"---I just want to say that I find your commments and this thread utterly fascinating. I belive that my trip to Israel was a gift from God to again wake in me a concern for His people and prophesy. I hadn't thought much about a systematic and informed life study of prophesy until I felt God nudging me.

I would love to come to Israel again on a trip with your group and Helene---and again it would be the hand of God as my husband is not sympathetic to the idea. He says ,"since I went to Israel, Ive turned into a fanatic!"

I have been learning so much!

Oh and I was wondering where info on the tsunammi came from? Has it been in the news lately?

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Hi Ron. The link below will give you a movie in Quick Time. It along with a series of others was prepared by Steve Ward, geophysicist at U Cal Santa Cruz. try the following links below for the full story.

http://es.ucsc.edu/~ward/LP_tsu_Atlantic_small.mov

try these for presntations, simulations etc (especially the Am. Museum lecture of Nov 5,2005)
http://es.ucsc.edu/~ward/powerpoint/ppt_index.htm

for the whole east coast by location:
http://es.ucsc.edu/~ward/movies_landtsu_index.htm

hope some of this works!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

If you want to watch it let me know ..I will patch the link in so you can see it for yourself!

Please, post the link.

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Folks I am posting the following information on this thread because there is a close link between the tsunami scenario and Ezekiel 38:20. In that verse God informs Ezekiel that the earthquake that hits israel will be felt by everybody around the world as well as the fish in the sea and other wildlife. Mountains will fall and "cliffs collapse". The hebrew word used here for cliff is only used twice in the Old testament. My Goodrick and Kohlenberger Hebrew lexicon indicates that "madregah" is translated either as cliff or "mountainside". To have the mountainside of La Palma collapse into the Atlantic involves some 500 cubic kilometers of rock (Mt St Helens was 3 cubic kilometers). This instability in the volcanic island chain has been closely studied and the collapse has been carefully modelled. I have watched the computer simulations of this monster racing across the Atlantic and hitting the eastern seaboard from Brazil to the Maritimes of Canada. IT HAS GOT TO BE THE SCARIEST THING I HAVE SEEN IN A LONG TIME!!! If you want to watch it let me know ..I will patch the link in so you can see it for yourself!

So what is the result? Well if you live in Lisbon, Portugal its 40 meters (130') of water above normal, same for Ireland and Brazil. For the eastcoast of the USA it's a measley 30 meters (100'). I remember hearing that hurricane Hugo had a storn surge of some 23' in a concentrated hit on Charleston years ago. Recently some of the category 4 and 5 storms have had similar storm surges. Now imagine something over 4 times that height coming miles inland along the entire east coast. Oh by the way I watched the computer modelled wave train go into the Gulf of Mexico and hit the underside of the USA as well. Hope they get those levees fixed in time to take this sucker if it strikes. The good news is that there is about 8 hours advance warning possible...just about enough time for millions to evacuate their homes and end up in gridlock on the interstate highways heading inland.

The energy released by a collapse of the La Palma mountainside/cliff is estimated at the equivalent of the simultaneous detonation of ALL nuclear missiles in the world. Ouch! Oh the damage in infrastructure alone would be well in excess of a trillion dollars. Although with the rising deficits even a trillion dollars doesn't sound like much any more !

We need to be praying that God will look after His children in whatever lies ahead, and that repentance occurs before horrific judgment falls. Of course the scientists would be telling us all that such a terrible tragedy was TOTALLY natural and had nothing to do with God. I'm sure folks would rest a lot easier knowing that

Sometimes on this thread I feel like I am talking to myself and should simply shut-up. I apologize in advance if any of this gives someone a headache.

Let me know if you want info on the computer simulation and details involved

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Time to resurrect this thread in light of the upcoming Israeli elections (late Feb likely) and the attached article from Arutz Sheva. Is there any doubt that the "wall" will in fact become a new international boundary with the abandonment of settlements on the other side? You judge! PS The linked website has some great pictures of the wall and its route across the country. HSB
http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=93139

Partition Wall Set to Slice Gush Etzion
16:41 Nov 17, '05 / 15 Cheshvan 5766
By Ezra HaLevi



Defense Minister Sha’ul Mofaz visited Gush Etzion Wednesday to hear security assessments and complaints of local municipality members regarding the partition fence/wall.


Participating in the visit were IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Maj.-Gen. Moshe Kaplinsky, IDF Central Command Head Maj.-Gen. Yair Naveh and the mayors of Gush Etzion, Efrat and Betar Illit. The mayors warned Mofaz and the other security brass against turning the security barrier into a political border, and urged them to treat communities on both sides of the wall equally.

According to the fence's tentative route, Gush Etzion will be sliced into pieces, with the communities of Tekoa, Nokdim, Meitzad, Pnei Kedem, Maaleh Rehavam and Carmei Tzur left outside the fence. Efrat, Beitar Illit, N'vei Daniel, Elazar, Alon Shvut, Bat Ayin, Kfar Etzion and Ein Tzurim will be on the "Israeli" side. The possibility of all Jewish communities outside the Partition route being destroyed in the future is already discussed openly in government circles. Private initiatives have even been launched to induce residents of such communities to leave in return for financial incentives.

The mayors and municipalities represent the more conciliatory approach toward the wall, seeking to negotiate the fence's route with the authorities, in the hope of mitigating the negative effects of the wall. According to the website of the Gush Etzion municipality, that approach, spearheaded by Gush Etzion Mayor Sha'ul Goldstein, stipulates non-opposition to the wall as long as it “does not interfere with the normal every day activities of those residents of Gush Etzion living within the fence."

see http://www.kfar-etzion.co.il/sec_fence.htm



The opposing camp, galvanized by Kibbutz Kfar Etzion’s decision to request that Gush Etzion be left outside the wall altogether, seeks to prevent the construction of the wall around Gush Etzion altogether. They argue that not only will the wall be a de facto border, abandoning Jewish towns, but that the close proximity of the wall to their communities will suffocate any future growth of the towns. They also oppose the wall's dissection of the Gush Etzion bloc.

Another issue raised by the security chiefs of the various communities is that the wall, called a security barrier by the government, in fact harms local Jewish security. The partition route leaves much high ground for Arab snipers to shoot at Jewish homes and the main Gush Etzion highway, while acting as an obstacle to security forces pursuing terrorists.

They also point to IDF and GSS security assessments that it is only a matter of time until rockets and mortar shells begin to be used in Judea and Samaria, as they were in Gaza.

The partition is a large concrete wall in many areas, particularly around Jerusalem and Gush Etzion, but is a chain-link fence or even natural barriers in most others.

According to Mayor Goldstein, a verbal agreement was reached with Mofaz weeks ago, whereby construction of the wall would not begin until the route had been agreed upon by the two sides. The agreement, however, appears to have been violated, and construction on the wall has already begun.

In addition to negotiating the fence’s route, the mayors have raised the concept of a “non-sequential security obstacle.” They argue that such a barrier - one of the widely-reported manifestations of which would be made of sabra-cacti - would prevent Arabs from objecting to the fence route in court and prevent the creation of a clear political border.



During the Defense Minister’s visit Wednesday, the mayors told the officials that residents continue to see the fence as a hindrance to the region’s development and a breaking apart of the Gush Etzion bloc. They also bemoan the detrimental effect the fence will have on the region’s security and on relations with and employment of Palestinian neighbors.

Shimon Karniel of Kibbutz Kfar Etzion explained the current situation to Arutz-7, saying that the bottom line is that the wall neither contributes to residents’ security nor provides any benefit to the region.

Of Wednesday’s meeting, Karniel said, “I felt that our requests were weak. All of the requests for changes in the route, when the changes are accepted or rejected – most probably rejected – what are we left with?”

“The fence is not the big struggle,” Karniel said. “The struggle is not only against the strangulation of our communities, but for Jewish sovereignty in Gush Etzion. If the ‘settlement blocs’ that Sharon speaks about are really to exist, and if there really is a consensus regarding Gush Etzion - Israel must assert sovereignty and annex the region into the State of Israel right now.”

Karniel fears that creating a wall that tightly hugs the current communities is merely the creation of an enclave without a future, to face the same fate as Gush Katif years down the road.

Those fighting the Partition Wall - a term they feel accurately describes the purpose of the barrier – to divide the Land of Israel and between Jewish communities - have set up an illustrative web site and email address (gadergush@gmail.com) for those wishing to get involved.

A recent group email from the activists reads: “As of now we are standing behind our decision to begin a public campaign. This project is extremely important and depends greatly on your volunteer participation. There are no paid employees that will work on this. This all depends on us.”

(Photos: Gershon Elinson and Kfar-Etzion.co.il)


Click here for our free Daily News Report from Israel



Published: 15:53 November 16, 2005
Last Update: 16:41 November 17, 2005

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Wendy: I believe Israel will withdraw to basically the 1967 lines (with a territorial exchange of about 3% to allow them to keep the Maale Adumin, Etzion and Ariel blocs). Hang on for the ride when that happens...

It is interesting that Gog is one of only two people named exactly in prophecy. You will recall that Cyrus the Persian was the other one. Both men play PIVOTAL yet OPPOSITE roles connected with the return of Jews to their homeland. Cyrus allowed the return and was blessed as a result. Gog will disallow the return and be judged and cursed as a result!

Have you ever wondered why Sheba and Dedan along with Tarshish would inquire of Gog "Have you come for spoil?" Think about that for a moment. Would somebody bother to ask Hitler what his intentions were with regard to Poland in September 1939 if a major armored and airforce attack was underway? The answer clearly is NO! This query of Gog ONLY makes sense if there is some treachery or doublecross underway. That is why I have felt for some time that Gog will come in peacefully (actually as "peacekeepers") as a cloud, followed by his "evil scheme", not under a traditional invasion attack. That is also why no resistance is mentioned, no battles get fought; Gog simply arrives, then gets wiped out. Pray the enemy involved here is NOT US!!!

Now regarding the "peaceful" condition that is supposed to prevail when Gog arrives, if this is a requirement as most translations indicate, then put your feet up and relax. However, I now believe the prophet is describing what in effect is almost an opposite condition, That the settlements are OUTSIDE THE WALL (consider that to be the new Security Wall snaking it's way across Israel) and in a vulnerable/exposed condition..not tranquility. Their settlements are their refuge (Hebrew betach) since they are outside the new boundary line.

So...If you see Israel withdraw from the West Bank, perhaps even unilaterally, and you see a large buffer force of peacekeepers deployed there to maintain order and security, then....RUN!!! and hope that PlumBob's hideyhole is big enough for you and your family. But you will need to get in line, I'll be ahead of you!

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I get an awful feeling if they are going back to the 1967 boarders---

I thought the same. Sounds like it...

[wendyj]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I get an awful feeling if they are going back to the 1967 boarders---its like slapping God in the face and not acknowledging how He defended Israel in that impossible war. The secular blindness in Israel is astronomic!! Imagine how the LORD feels over this. Is this Joel 3? where they are dividing up the land.

One thought though about the war against the land with the unwalled villages: it seems they are walling themselves and they are not dwelling securely so I wonder if the time clock is slowing?