Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

[Guest]

I feel strongly after four visits to Israel with extensive touring through the settlement areas, that the key to understanding Ezekiel 38 and 39, actually lies in Ezekiel 36. God is speaking directly to the "mountains of Israel", which is "coincidentally" where Gog's army will be destroyed. It is this very area that Jews settled in after 1967 which will now end up as a Palestinian state. The secular Jews in Israel probably couldn't care less but God does, after all He spoke directly to these very mountains about the return of His people in the Last Days.

In my study of Ez 38 and 39 I read in my Bible, along with everybody else, about invasion, attack etc. The Hebrew actually just says that the military force "shows up". It is an ASSUMPTION that this involves an attack. After all no resistance is offered.

On the near horizon, the single greatest impact event I see coming is the attempt to create a Palestinian state. If this turns out to be successful, let's all put our books away for another 50 years because the "mountains of Israel" would then be the "mountains of the Palestinian Arabs".

If this new state is to be foisted on the Jews, and we know it will be, then I ask who is going to implement it? It won't be the IDF, with over 10,000 military personnel already signing a petition that they would refuse to uproot Jews from settlements. It will require a large multinational "peace" force. I believe this is the force that will constitute Gog's "coalition".

All I would appreciate is a consideration of the consequences of implementing an arab state on the west bank, and the abandonment of the very area God is speaking to in Ezekiel 36. Somebody is going to have to show up soon on the mountains of Israel to do the dirty work. Could this be the hook in the jaws? My point is that if Americans are involved in this exercise, then run for cover as divine judgment will speedily be on the way.

God bless you richly as you serve Him! Shalom

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB,

I'd like to hear your thoughts on -

I look at the JPost, and Haaretz pretty regularly. For at least a couple of years now, the overall (subjective) feeling I've gotten from the secular press is that Israelies in general are so tired of the violence that they would be willing to give up the West Bank and Gaza, if it looked to them like they would have some peace. The current reluctance of the IDF seems to me to be counter to what I've perceived as this general mood of resignation.

How do you assess the present mood in Israel to give up W. Bank, and especially, perhaps, vs. giving up control of Jerusalem? I keep hearing (reading, actually) "No Way" to giving up Jerusalem, but I'd like to hear what you think.

What I'm hearing from your post is - if the Arabs actually get their W. Bank state, and we see it happen, we should all ". . . put our books away for another 50 years. . .", because this isn't the time. But at the same time, if the US is so crass as to actually try to facilitate this, we're fried.

Thoughts? Thanks...

PlumBob

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

PlumBob: great questions. Here's my 2 shekels worth of response.
Other useful Israeli sources I personally track are Arutz Sheva for general news, Debka for military/security issues.

Re your comment about Israeli tiredness, yes indeed. In my travels through the country I note two major political solitudes (note this is from my own tiny sampling, based on random discussions with various folks, but accurate at least 2 times out of 5) There are the people living on the coastal plain (including Tel Aviv) that are typically more secular than their "mountain kin". The coastal folks I have met are far more inclined to say cut a deal with the arabs and try to buy some peace in exchange for land. While they are happy to be living in part of the Promised Land themselves, they are not as caught up in the literalness of the Abrahamic covenant. The people inland, especially those living in the settlements are more orthodox and literal in their understanding of Scripture. Many of them can quote much of Ezekiel 36 by heart. They believe they have been called back by God to settle this land. The people I have met are wonderful, hard working, moral individuals. Now if push comes to shove, some will resist up to violence I believe but most others will submit to being dragged away all the while calling on God Himself to intervene. That's where it gets very interesting. What if push does come to shove and what if God does intervene. In my opinion we are right into Ezekiel 38/39.

There is a growing expectation that a Palestinian arab state on the west bank is a done deal (I believe this is so myself) Europe has warned/offered trade deals to both Israel and the P.A. based on two states, living side-by-side in peace. America has committed itself to this as well. My point about the 50 years is simply this. Right now you can call the hill area the mountains of Israel, but if next year the whole thing gets deeded to the arabs, you've just transferred away the very area God is speaking directly to in Ezekiel 36. He is not speaking to people, HE IS SPEAKING TO THE MOUNTAINS THEMSELVES! Ergo- it ain't going to happen PlumBob. God Himself will directly enter the equation with massive earthquake activity down the whole mountain chain. I was in Jerusalem with my brother last November. We got to meet with the Heads of Israeli disaster response. I was looking forward to hearing about how they respond to terrorist strikes, along with some of their contingency planning in the country. Do you know what they are spending ALL OF THEIR TIME PLANNING FOR? - MASSIVE EARTHQUAKES COMING!!!

I see a deal being resurrected out of the failed Barak/Clinton/Arafat sessions. All of the west bank, save a few small areas traded for equivalent land elsewhere in Israel, and most of Jerusalem will go to the arabs. Of course it will never be enough! But think of how even that much will get implemented. Somebody will have to do the dirty work. It's THAT issue that the IDF is so adamant against. They will refuse to order Jewish soldiers to drag Jewish mothers and children out of their homes.

An international peace force is going to be required. This force will be acting, in my opinion, against the explicit written will of God, as outlined in Ezekiel 36. As you so strongly put it "if the U.S. is so crass as to actually try to facilitate this, we're fried". You know I actually cried when I read those words PlumBob. Not Donald Trump saying "you're fired!!" but something far worse "you're fried!!"

Finally a note about timing for what it is worth. In a discussion I had with an Orthodox Jew in Jerusalem in 2000, I told him I thought the problem in the west bank was that the "facts on the ground" were against them. There are far more arabs living there than Jews. They outnumber the Jewish settlers by 5:1. I said in my opinion God gave the West Bank to Israel in 1967. What has occurred in large measure is a "failure to possess" . I assume you get the allusion to the wilderness decision at Kadesh Barnea. That tragedy resulted in the postponement of blessing on Israel for 40 years. Well if the analogy holds 40 years after 1967 is just about here.

What to look for? Well for starters look for enormous pressure on Israel to accept the two state solution. Up until this point in time all the U.N. resolutions in the world were unenforcible without U.S. pressure on Israel. This will all change. The U.S. is now committed to a 2 state solution. How can Israel function if it fails to accomodate American and European economic blackmail?? They will agree to the 2 state solution but refuse to implement it themselves. Look for a set of "hooks in the jaws" to drag somebody in, clearly a multinational military force, to do the dirty work. The whole world will then see a Holy God in action, for His Own Name's Sake.

Israel is God's timepiece/hourglass as we have heard so often. Well the sand is about to run out (almost as fast as the oil is running out). If you like PlumBob we can talk further about who actually is involved in this dirty deed, and what the consequences are.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

The ezekiel 38-39 war is a sudden unexpected dulge on Israel by Iran, Russia,
Ethiopia, Libya, and Gomer who is EUROPE .
this is AFTER a peace deal with/by the Antichrist when Israel is living at peace. this is also IMHO the 2nd seal of the Revelation.... The arabs get the palistinian state in the AC's peace deal .......... then LATER all mentioned invade a weakened Israel....... guess you could call this a multinational ""peacekeeping" force!!!
IM EVER SO HO Eze 36/37 point to THIS establishment of Israel. Psalms 48, 102 say this is the final generation! it is 68years since the 12 year olds (next generation)saw 1948......it is 38 years since 1967.. 70 and 40 years are critical in prophecy
are you looking UP ??

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I agree 40 and 70 are important numbers in prophecy. I also happen to agree with you that Gog's arrival and destruction constitutes the second seal. I don't agree that it is necessarily Russia at all. That interpretation was popularized by Hal Lindsey at the height of the Cold War and has since been discredited, in my opinion. Here is my question to you. If a 2 state system emerges in Israel, who is going to actually evict the Jewish settlers and implement the deal? I believe that force will be smashed by God, along with judgment falling on the "coastlands" of their home country. In response to the Russia=MaGog hypothesis I would ask you the following: We all know Russia has a very long coastline, but who in fact lives there? answer= nobody. God reigning fire on the coastlands of Russia would I guess melt a lot of ice not much more.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

HSB, and lewishb -

Interesting! Yes, I look at Debka, too.

I noticed last night that Haaretz had 2 editorials in the same issue - one saying essentially "we ought to settle this thing, and Abbas is the guy to do it," and the other saying just the opposite "this thing will never get settled, and Abbas can't be trusted."

Thanks for your insights. HSB, of course I would be delighted to continue to hear your thoughts about ". . . who is involved in this dirty deed, and what the consequences are."

Come quickly Lord!

PlumBob

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

why Russia is "Gog" Meshech is Moscow; Tubal is Tobolsk(in the Cacuses)
the russians are decended from the sythians;from noah. they are in the north of Israel, they return to their desolate land after the invasion

Joe 2:20 But I will remove far off 07368 from you the northern 06830 [army], and will drive 05080 him into a land 0776 barren 06723 and desolate 08077, with his face 06440 toward the east 06931 sea 03220,(mediterranian/black sea?) and his hinder part 05490 toward the utmost 0314 sea 03220, (artic ocean?)and his stink 0889 shall come up 05927 , and his ill savour 06709 shall come up 05927 , because he hath done 06213 great things 01431 .

The coastlands/isles eze39:6 were the gentile nations across the mediterranian sea from Israel

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

There are the people living on the coastal plain (including Tel Aviv) that are typically more secular than their "mountain kin". The coastal folks I have met are far more inclined to say cut a deal with the arabs and try to buy some peace in exchange for land. While they are happy to be living in part of the Promised Land themselves, they are not as caught up in the literalness of the Abrahamic covenant.

Oddly enough this is nearly a quote from the pastorate of my church..this past Sunday. They make a yearly trip to Israel (it is a large church) and they were discussing this very thing.
I thought it was sorta confirming to you...3 out of 6 now.

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

lewishb - another ? for you, pse....
I'm not a prophesy scholar by any stretch - only an observer. Over the years I've heard "generation" defined many, many ways - including 70 years, 80 years, ad infinitum. I'd really like to understand where your 12-to-70 comes from. Jewish tradition? Other Jewish writings? Bible? I've been pondering this for a couple of years now, and never have had an opportunity to talk to anyone about it before.

Jeanie, first Hello....
Terribly interesting to think about, huh? The scenario's are almost endless. I'm amazed at how many people are thinking along the same lines now-a-days.

PlumBob

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Thanks for that info Jeanie.... in baseball batting .500 would be pretty good.
Here is my question for Wedgies. We all know a settlement with a 2 state system in Israel is near. Who is going to do the actual dirty work of removing what might be thousands of Orthodox Jewish settlers from the West Bank area (mountains of Israel) I have asked this question on different boards and in different posts. Nobody has given ANY answer to that. I wonder if somebody here will take a stab at it. HSB PS Don't think it will be the IDF- those folks are on the verge of civil wasr and the general staff are not stupid!

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Who is going to do the actual dirty work of removing what might be thousands of Orthodox Jewish settlers from the West Bank area (mountains of Israel)

More precisely, who would Israel trust to do this dirty work? Who's agreeable?
UN forces...they would certainly be agreeable, but would Israel allow them to move Israeli citizens? I don't think so.
EU... they have never shown the slightest favor toward Israel...it's a maybe here..still I don't think so.
I'm not very studied in international relations...but I honestly don't think there's another country...or armed force that Israel trusts enough to move her citizens....
save one...
US

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

I'm not sure I'm getting this straight yet. Are those folks living in the settlements going to be recompensed properly for their homes, or are they simply expected to leavewhile the Palestinian refugees walk in and take over their homes, a la South Africa? If that is the case, what good is it to simply exchange one group of so called refugees for another? If they will be paid more than fairly for their trouble, is it impossible to believe that perhaps they can be convinced, by that "Special Someone" perhaps, to leave peacefully? Is there anything they would deem more valuable to them than their homes and land that may be offered as incentive? A fully functioning Temple perhaps?

I certainly don't see the American soldiers being any more willing to carry out an evacuation order than the Israeli's. If the UN or EU or whoever, really wants to make them leave, they will have to do it Hitler-style, or else simply stand back and allow the Palestinians to do their own dirty work. Nasty no matter how you look at it. Or they will have to come up with some really amazing incentives....

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

OK, FWIW,

Given that we're going to work from HSB's scenario - Here's my 2 shekels worth

I do think the EU would be "acceptable" to do this kind of mission. Israel has been making noises like they would like to have a relationship w/ the EU for several months now. And likewise, the EU hasn't said "no".

Who's to say what the motives of the two sides are, but the EU will hold out an olive branch to anybody that has the potential of enhancing its position in the world. For Israel to even appear to be allowing the EU to lend a helping hand (when Israel's very best friend, the US, wouldn't or couldn't) gives the EU, in their own eyes, at least, much more importance in world affairs.

For Israel's part, the secular side of the government would likely gladly accept an olive branch if it appeared to: 1) hold out some guarantee of "peace" and 2) hold out some guarantee of Israel being able to participate in the greater european trade bloc.

Indeed, that "Special Someone" might just cross enough palms w/ euros to make it worth the secular government's time to go to the Bahama's for a few weeks. (I'm being hugely facetious here.) But yes, I can conceive of the Israeli government's acceptance of a multinational group - and that doesn't have to include the US or UN or NATO - to assist w/ a task like this, on the grounds that ". . . a few settlers being displaced is a small price to pay for the common good that will befall all of Israel. . . and it can be accomplished in the short span of only seven years!"

The twist to the conversation that gives me a little pause for consideration is the timing. If indeed we're looking at 2 years, or even 4 or 5, I'm thinking things at the EU will have to roll along pretty quickly. They're having trouble enough getting their mainstream players to ratify a constitution, for crying out loud. But then I don't suppose that this kind of political ploy would necessarily need the whole group to buy in - just Mr. Special's best friends, huh? Yes, Mr. Special could pull this off, if indeed he's THAT special.

So, HSB, if everybody else in the whole universe of these kinds of boards is too chicken to ". . .take a stab at it", you heard it first from PlumBob. What say you?

Jeanie & Sandylion, thoughts?

PlumBob

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Who's to say what the motives of the two sides are, but the EU will hold out an olive branch to anybody that has the potential of enhancing its position in the world. For Israel to even appear to be allowing the EU to lend a helping hand (when Israel's very best friend, the US, wouldn't or couldn't) gives the EU, in their own eyes, at least, much more importance in world affairs.

I have to give you the nod on this one Plumbob. The EU is certainly ready to head in any direction to enhance their wolrd position...but can you imagine Israel placing themselves in an indebted position to them? Much less to move their citizens from their own land? That would take some major incentive for the state of Israel itself...and could that be what would implement Sandy's theory...(which premise I personally loved)...a new Temple for the Mount? I'm much more inclined to believe that the secular inhabitants in Israel are not interested in a new Temple...they'd be more interested in a workable peace.
How to appease all the players, and quickly?

[Guest]

Re: Ezekiel 36 and the Mountains of Israel.

Gee, Jeanie (Wow, that rhymes!)

Now you and Sandy have made everybody a winner -

* EU's lookin good! Makes the US look weak!
* Israel (secular) gets peace, and a stronger presence in the economic markets of europe to boot!
* Israel (orthodox Jewish) gets a Temple, and hey, we're going to move all of you guys who have been living out there in the West Bank, to Jerusalem, and pay you for your trouble! Might not be THAT hard to convince them to move to town.
* Oh, yeah, and Mr. Special will have a place to move into, in 3.5 years.

HSB, I'm afraid we may have extrapolated a bit from your original scenario here, but -

PlumBob