100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

[Christian Soldier]

http://watch.org/showart.php3?idx=64...wsubj=1&mcat=1

By Bill Koenig


Today there are approximately 100 million American church members who have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy. These church members are from replacement theology churches that don't teach Bible prophecy and who look at prophetic scriptures as allegorical and not literal. Consequently, they do not understand the importance of Israel to the God of Israel or God's redemptive plan for Israel and the nations. (To Read "The Error of Replacement Theology" - By Clarence H. Wagner Jr. click here, click: http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm.)

These church members also have no understanding of the biblical significance of what is transpiring today in Israel, Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, and in other Middle East nations. They are also not aware of the significance of the formation of the European Union, new ID technologies and much more.

I have shared the biblical significance of our times with some of these people and almost all of them can't process the information mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. And due to fear they do not want to hear more.

They also have no point of reference in which to start if they had interest.

The good news is those who understand Bible prophecy are fully aware of the significance of Israel, God's time clock, and are watching the times with great interest and expectancy.

We will continue to post articles under Update and Commentary and under the Error Exposed category under Page Two News to inform you of the official church positions, their recent statements calling on Israel to leave her land, and writings and statements that speak against pro-Israel Christians.

Below is a list of the 25 largest churches in America. The churches that are highlighted in bold are confirmed replacement theology churches. We are still attempting to confirm a few of the smaller church positions.

The Churches

U.S. Membership Denominational Ranking: Largest 25 Denominations/Communions --2004 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches

1. The Roman Catholic Church - 66,407,105
2. Southern Baptist Convention - 16, 427, 736
3. The United Methodist Church - 8,251,042
4. The Church of God in Christ - 5,499,875
5. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - 5,410,544
6. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 5,038,006
7. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. - 5,000,000
8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. - 3,500,000
9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - 3,407,329
10. Assemblies of God - 2,687,366
11. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - 2,512,714
12. African Methodist Episcopal Church - 2,500,000
13. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America - 2,500,000
14. Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc. - 2,500,000
15. The Episcopal Church - 2,333,628
16. Churches of Christ, Corsicana, Texas - 1,500,000
17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America - 1,500,000
18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. - 1,500,000
19. American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. - 1,484,291
20. African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church - 1,430,795
21. United Church of Christ - 1,330,985
22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International - 1,200,000
23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo. - 1,071,616
24. Jehovah's Witnesses - 1,022,397
25. Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn., - 944,857

[Guest]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Hi Leo,

I thought the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod didn't believe in replacement theology. So I went to their web site and this is what I found. To me they have given a confusing answer, kind of like sitting on the fence about the issue. What do you think?

God's Chosen People

Q. What is meant by the Jews being God's chosen people? What is their eternal future? Does a Jew who dies without Christ as their Savior spend eternity in hell? Should we, as Christians, pray for their conversion? A. You have asked whether the Jews are God's chosen people and several other questions related to that issue. The questions are very important and the answers which have been given to them often lead to different and false answers that affect both religious and political views. They are often seen as the basis for establishing the state of Israel as well as the false notion that all Jewish people will be saved. Perhaps rather than asking the question whether the Jews are God's chosen people, it would be better to ask whether Israel is God's chosen people, in what sense they are chosen, and who really is Israel. Taking the questions in reverse order, the New Testament makes it clear that the true Israel is made up of believers. As St. Paul states in a number of places, it is children of faith who are the children of Abraham and he calls them the Israel of God. Israel was chosen as the nation through which God would fulfill his promise of sending a Messiah for the salvation of people. It is the people who believe in Jesus as the Messiah sent by God who are the true Israel. In that sense, Israel is God's chosen people. It is not the nation or the race as such, apart from faith, which are God's chosen people. The Bible also makes it clear that there is no warrant for saying that apart from Christ there is salvation. Jesus himself said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." While we certainly cannot limit God who may act as he wishes, we have no warrant for saying that there is salvation for anyone apart faith in Christ. Consequently we should certainly pray for the conversion of Jewish people who do not know Jesus as the Messiah, the Savior, just as we pray for all others who do not have that faith.

[Christian Soldier]

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod

Hi Denise. How are you?

OK, you wanted my opinion on the following and whether the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod believes in Replacement Theology. Please note the text that I've underlined and my comments below:
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Lutheran Church Missouri Synod's official response:

You have asked whether the Jews are God's chosen people and several other questions related to that issue. The questions are very important and the answers which have been given to them often lead to different and false answers that affect both religious and political views. They are often seen as the basis for establishing the state of Israel as well as the false notion that all Jewish people will be saved.

Perhaps rather than asking the question whether the Jews are God's chosen people, it would be better to ask whether Israel is God's chosen people (Leo: Notice how these Lutherans switched "Jews" to "Israel".), in what sense they are chosen, and who really is Israel (Leo: The question of who really is Israel hints that the modern day church is Israel perhaps.). Taking the questions in reverse order, the New Testament makes it clear that the true Israel is made up of believers. As St. Paul states in a number of places, it is children of faith who are the children of Abraham and he calls them the Israel of God. Israel was chosen as the nation through which God would fulfill his promise of sending a Messiah for the salvation of people. It is the people who believe in Jesus as the Messiah sent by God who are the true Israel (Leo: Since the Jews rejected Christ at His coming and the Christians are embracing Jesus, then the Church is true Israel: This reeks of Replacement Theology, doesn't it?). In that sense, Israel is God's chosen people (Leo: Christians are God's chosen people then?). It is not the nation or the race as such, apart from faith, which are God's chosen people (Leo: I've been taught that the Jews (an ethnic race) are God's chosen people.).

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Please also note the following at:

http://www.holyland-lutherans.org/ne...tember2004.htm

A Lutheran Response to the “Left Behind” Series by LCMS:

The popular 'Left Behind' book series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins endorse an understanding of what will happen in the "final days" that troubles many pastors, including Bishop Munib Younan. Lutheran pastors in Jerusalem recently met and discussed a very helpful new resource examining these issues called "A Lutheran Response to the 'Left Behind' Series," developed by the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod. The Bishop applauds this resource because "it reflects sound Christian theology and eschatology that needs to be emphasized and re-emphasized in today's world for the sake of the mission of the Church." Some conclusions of the study:

The 'Left Behind' series fails to do justice to the Christ-centeredness of Scripture by encouraging people to fix their eyes on current events in the Middle East, the nuclear build up in other nations and the ongoing crisis in Israel, rather than upon Christ alone. Page 21

The teaching that God promises through "the rapture" to rescue true believers from the suffering of the 'great tribulation' of the end times also raises troublesome questions about God's care and compassion for the millions of believers throughout history (and in our present time) who have endured (and are enduring) unspeakable persecution and tribulation as a result of their faithful witness to Christ and His Gospel. Page 20-21

The study considers these issues: the rapture and the millennium; Israel and the Church; the relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament; the land of Israel; and the Book of Revelation.

The answers and beliefs about these crucial issues undergird and direct many US policies and attitudes toward Israel and Palestine. Download a copy of the study at:

http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/...req=Tim+LaHaye

A Lutheran Response to the Left Behind Series:

* In a September 27, 2002 memo to the Commission on Theology and Church Relations, President Gerald Kieschnick reported “a growing concern in our church about the impact that the popular Left Behind series of books is having on people today, including members of The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod.” After sharing his conviction that “this is a legitimate concern and that some attention needs to be given to the matter,” the President requested that “the Commission review this topic and prepare a statement on it that will be helpful to our people as they exercise discernment when reading such literature.”

To be sure, these books have heightened awareness of such end-time
topics as the millennium, the rapture, the Antichrist and Armageddon. Yet
the ideas expressed in the Left Behind series are in many ways contrary to
the teaching of Holy Scripture. Though containing a fictional story line,
the books promote a theology that is, in important respects, at odds with
the biblical revelation (Leo: These Lutherans are not dispensationalists it would appear.).

Israel and the Church

An important component of the LaHaye/Jenkins manner of biblical
interpretation is their belief that God will reestablish an earthly kingdom
with the nation of Israel. These authors believe that by crucifying Jesus the
Jews rejected the earthly kingdom offered to them, but God did not reject
the Jews (Leo: Notice that these Lutherans stressed that it's LaHaye and Jenkins' belief and not the belief of these Lutherans.).

Left Behind assumes that because this kingdom was offered to (and
then refused by) the Jews, it will be offered again in the future. In what
way? (Leo: By using the word "assume", these Lutherans do not believe it's in the Bible.) The Old Testament prophecies of the restoration of national Israel to the land in the last days will be fulfilled literally (Leo: It's apparent that these Lutherans do not believe in the LITERAL fulfillment, but a SPIRITUAL one. Dare I intimate that these Lutherans are Preterists.). The series of books is built upon the belief that the promise of returning to the land was fulfilled with Israel’s re-birth as a nation in 1948. At that time the prophetic fuse was relit and now history is racing toward the end, and at an accelerated pace. For this reason the current events in the nation of Israel are of vital importance for followers of the Left Behind series.

So what about the church? According to Left Behind, as an alternate
plan or as a parenthesis, Christ established the church because Gentiles
believed what the Jews rejected. This is the “Church Age,” or sixth dispensation, and it must end with the rapture before God can re-establish His primary work with the Jews and bring about the culmination of history—the seventh dispensation, Christ’s reign on earth.

Leo: I can conclude from the above that the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod believes in Replacement Theology and frowns upon the study of Bible prophecy.

[N1095A]

Re: Lutheran Church Missouri Synod

Well I'll tell you this, it has been almost impossible since I decided to open up the site and try to make more information available. It has been very difficult so I'm guessing it must not be meant for many people to know much about prophecy. I'm reading a book given to me (loaned) and the guy is basically a preterist and this is what people want to hear.

[JohnR]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

With him adding the JWs and Mormons in the count , I'm really disappointed( ) he didn't add buddhists, wiccans, and other non-jewish "ecclessia" in the mix for a higher body count.

[Guest]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Thanks Leo for sharing what you believe the LCMS is teaching. I felt like they were trying to hide that they believe in replacement theology, by twisting things around.

I know from our pastors that they believe in the "spiritual Israel" and that the nation of Israel is nothing more than another country. They also believe that the New Jerusalem is spiritual and that Christ will not set foot on the earth again.

I had read about the Lutheran response to the Left Behind series a long time ago. Our pastor brought it up one sunday and kept shaking his head in disbelief that anyone could read the Left Behind series and be led so astray with it's teaching of a rapture, tribulation, antichrist, etc. He told us it was fiction and did a bad job at teaching what the Bible does tell us about prophecy.

I believe that LCMS is amillennialist. They do not teach anything out of the book of Revelation. They will sometimes quote different scripture out of it but never really teach from that book.

Thanks again.

Another thing I wanted to share, my husband and kids and I are going to visit a different church today. We have been going to LCMS for 10+ years and have struggled for about 10+ years, lol. We're checking out a church a friend of ours goes to, a Baptist church. We used to go to a Baptist church for about 5 years but then felt led to change. I'm really excited about going back to Baptist teaching. Keep us in prayer this morning.

[Christian Soldier]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Quote: So what about the church? According to Left Behind, as an alternate plan or as a parenthesis, Christ established the church because Gentiles believed what the Jews rejected. This is the “Church Age,” or sixth dispensation, and it must end with the rapture before God can re-establish His primary work with the Jews and bring about the culmination of history—the seventh dispensation, Christ’s reign on earth.
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Leo: It's interesting to notice that churches that expound false teachings such as preterism and ammillennialism can get it right when writing about their opinions about dispensationalism.

[Christian Soldier]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Thanks Leo for sharing what you believe the LCMS is teaching. I felt like they were trying to hide that they believe in replacement theology, by twisting things around.

I know from our pastors that they believe in the "spiritual Israel" and that the nation of Israel is nothing more than another country. They also believe that the New Jerusalem is spiritual and that Christ will not set foot on the earth again.

I had read about the Lutheran response to the Left Behind series a long time ago. Our pastor brought it up one sunday and kept shaking his head in disbelief that anyone could read the Left Behind series and be led so astray with it's teaching of a rapture, tribulation, antichrist, etc. He told us it was fiction and did a bad job at teaching what the Bible does tell us about prophecy.

I believe that LCMS is amillennialist. They do not teach anything out of the book of Revelation. They will sometimes quote different scripture out of it but never really teach from that book.

Thanks again.

Another thing I wanted to share, my husband and kids and I are going to visit a different church today. We have been going to LCMS for 10+ years and have struggled for about 10+ years, lol. We're checking out a church a friend of ours goes to, a Baptist church. We used to go to a Baptist church for about 5 years but then felt led to change. I'm really excited about going back to Baptist teaching. Keep us in prayer this morning.

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Leo: Denise, you're very welcome. For me and my family, I would leave any church that doesn't preach dispensationalism from the pulpit not because I feel superior to those that do not believe in the Rapture or in the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ in peace and righteousness, but because I can't really have true fellowship with the congregants. Yes, I love them all because we're fellow believers who have been purchased by the blood of Jesus and I thank God for that. However, when it comes to service and being a watcher, that's another matter.

I'm yearning to leave planet Earth to be with Jesus while my fellow preterists/ammillenialists are trying their best to make Earth a human paradise. I have a passion for Bible prophecy while these congregants think I am nuts for "wasting" my time. As for the service part, I would preach the Gospel warning the unsaved of God's impending judgment upon this world while my friend from my church would counter my message by saying that this world is getting better and better. What would the unsaved think of our mixed messages? I prefer to leave such a church and go to one that has the same interests as me. Even though we're saved, that doesn't mean we can serve the Lord with just any believer. Commonality in secondary issues has to be present. Why do people leave their church for another church? They're seeking people of like faith and interests. They want to be fed from the Word, something they are not getting at their own church.

As for Baptist churches, they're mostly solidly grounded in the truth if you can put up with their rather staid worship services ( ). If you want more stirring of the emotions, Pentecostal churches are the preferred choice.

In short, do what you believe the Holy Spirit is leading you. Being that you're a watcher with a fervent interest in Bible prophecy and a person who contends for the faith that was once delivered to the saints, staying in an ammillennial-based church will grieve the Holy Spirit indwelling you and you won't be happy camper.

[sojourner52]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Very true, Leo!
I was in a charismatic church and the worship was really good!
but the bible teaching was non-existent. and I was so hungry!
trying to find someone even to talk to about spiritual matters was hard - unless it was an "event" or something that the pastor had said. and his sermons were nothing more than motivational speeches wrapped in a scripture. they seemed to fall for every new teaching or movement that came along without trying the spirit behind it. they are preterist, though I guarantee 98% of the congregation doesnt even know that. they teach that it's going to keep getting better and better and the church is going to keep getting stronger and stronger. but the church they are cultivating is off center.
I left and am now in a baptist church - one that teaches straight from the Bible.

[Guest]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Having attended several, I always recommend any Calvary Chapels that might be in your area. Go here for a map and list of all of their churches:

http://www.calvarychapel.org

Click on "Churches".

Chuck Smith, is as humble of a guy as you can get but still the head of a meg-large, international church. He insists his pastors teach line-by-line, verse-by-verse through the entire bible. I have heard he has been through it 10 times, now! Being previously, Pentecostal, he believes in powerful worship, also. He believes the gifts are still for today but that the Holy Spirit is a Gentleman and does not disrupt services with speaking in tongues, dancing, jumping around (anything that calls attention to oneself). Speaking in tongues is more of a personal edification performed in private or in one of the "after glow" services. And Chuck is an avid student of Prophecy and he and many of his pastors give end-of-year prophecy updates on current events!

Generally Calvarys don't have a sign-up register for membership. If you want to be on a list so others know how to contact you, you can be on a register. You come and go as you please and don't ever officially join. There is usually no emphasis on giving and Chuck believes, "if you let God guide, He will provide"! Some Churches "pass the plate" while others have "agape" boxes in the back for those who feel led to give.

I have attended several Calvary Chapels, in several states, been on one of their church boards and have a daughter in Maryland attending one regularly!

So, IMO, you can't go wrong, by attending one!

John H.

[Christian Soldier]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Very true, Leo!
I was in a charismatic church and the worship was really good!
but the bible teaching was non-existent. and I was so hungry!
trying to find someone even to talk to about spiritual matters was hard - unless it was an "event" or something that the pastor had said. and his sermons were nothing more than motivational speeches wrapped in a scripture. they seemed to fall for every new teaching or movement that came along without trying the spirit behind it. they are preterist, though I guarantee 98% of the congregation doesnt even know that. they teach that it's going to keep getting better and better and the church is going to keep getting stronger and stronger. but the church they are cultivating is off center.
I left and am now in a baptist church - one that teaches straight from the Bible.

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Yes, worship shouldn't supplant the reading and meditating on God's Word. It's God desire that we feed on His Word which abides forever. Sojourner52, you are a vertible Christian soldier who's contending earnestly for the faith and have a fervent desire to please Jesus in every way. I thank God for saints such as yourself. You're such an inspiration to me!

[sojourner52]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

I attended a calvary chapel here for 10 years and it was great!
the teaching was the best I have ever received. and the worship also was great.
but something happened in the church and it led to many leaving the church. it kept getting smaller and smaller.
they were not evangelical at all - but I think it's because of who made up the core founding members. they were very well-to-do and seemed self-satisfied and didnt want any outsiders. in fact, there was a housing project right next door which would have been a great outreach. but they would rather avoid "that kind" than reach out to them.
I lived in a housing project myself at the time. I would load up my old station wagon with kids from the neighborhood but they were not well-received at all. there were rude comments made.
I left there because they were not evangelical and I wanted to be involved in outreach.
but I still love calvary chapel - there were problems in that one, but as I said it came from that certain group. and I think most of them have left now - I visited not long ago and it has changed. they have a new pastor and are reaching out. the church is growing again.
I began attending this baptist church because I was invited by a friend. the people there have been very warm and there is a passion for souls and a love for the Lord! not to mention solid bible teaching!

[Guest]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

I wanted to share with you all my experience at this new church we visited, (baptist). Wow, it was great! What a breath of fresh air. So when did Baptist churches start using any instrument other than an organ or piano, lol. I almost fell out of my chair when I heard them aplaud a teen after she sang a solo. And what almost made me faint as if dead was when a few people raised their hand in worship as they sang. Very different from our old Baptist church.

The teaching, what can I say? My husband said it all when he said it was as different as night is from day. Felt like we had finally come home. Not only home, but to a home that had been remodeled, lol. My two teen girls really liked the service and the worship team.

The church is only about 15 minutes from our home and there were a few people that we knew from our old baptist church from 10+ years ago. I think we've kind of decided we'd like to go there for awhile and see what happens. It's been a long time since I haven't walked away from church feeling very grieved by the Holy Spirit. Today we all felt refreshed.

The pastor taught on Psalm 119, a segment of it. He taught strongly on reviving your faith and recommitting yourself. Making sure that you use the Bible as your instruction manual for life. I was shocked at how much scripture was presented during the service. My daughter said, "mom, next time we need to bring a bible." lol, something we are not used to doing in our old church.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I feel like I feasted on God's word today and had true fellowship and worship.

[openeyes]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

To someone here who can help,

Since a common thread here is to have dispensationalists explain what varied others believe, please give a dispensationalist definition of what an amillenialist believes. I really am curious because I've never met one that didn't study prophecy and the book of Revelation.

thanks,
openeyes

[Christian Soldier]

Re: 100M U.S. church members have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy

Denise: I was shocked at how much scripture was presented during the service. My daughter said, "mom, next time we need to bring a bible." lol, something we are not used to doing in our old church.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I feel like I feasted on God's word today and had true fellowship and worship.
------

Leo: I am so very happy for you and your family! Wow, to have the Bible actually being opened and used in a service! What will Christians churches think of next?! (I was not being facetious there.) In the good old days, the old hymns were sung and the Bible was treasured like gold coins. Sadly today, the new ways have produced alternative methods that leave a soul parched and dry and hankering for the feast of yesteryears. Denise, you have rediscovered the refreshing well of God's Word!