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  • New thought on the 10 virgins

    So the five virgins with oil is the Church of Philadelphia, found in Revelation 3:7-13.
    The five virgins without oil is the Church of Laodicea, found in Revelation 3:14-22.
    Both of these groups have lamps. All will hear the rapture announcement of trumpet sound. Only five of the ten have oil in their lamps.
    my take here would be that the Laodicean church knows about Jesus, ...
    Both churches have lamps...
    But only the Philadelphian church knows, has a saving relationship With Jesus...
    Indwelt by the Spirit, the oil...

  • #2
    Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

    What do you do with Matthew 25:8?

    Matthew 25:
    8
    And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

    Issachar
    The church is on Earth to save souls from a lost world, not to save the world from lost souls.

    Man learns about history, not from history. To learn from history requires wisdom. Cut off from God, he has none, so history repeats; no new thing under the sun.

    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken - dylan

    Psalms 122:8 For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

      you asked what about :
      And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
      The foolish heard that Jesus was coming, but were not ready when He actually came? too busy with their lives, just played church Sundays?

      I think that many of the members of a typical church probably arent really saved... they kinda believe, came in remorse NOT in repentance, mumbled a few words once upon a time, and thought they got saved, but in their heart never really got saved... they never had any oil-the indwelling Holy spirit...

      Otherwise you have the imho false doctrine that believers (5 of the virgins) can loose their salvation
      Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
      Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
      The Hebrew marriage ceremony is a picture of the Church marriage...
      Last edited by lewisb; 03-07-2016, 06:45 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

        Interesting thought, Lewis. However, if you are wanting to join the parable to the letters to the churches, why would only these 2 be included in the parable? In the letters, there is a structural change that suggests 4 of the 7 will still be present at his coming. That structural change is the placement of the promise to the overcomer. In the first 3 the promise is "appended" after the benediction, "let he who has ears hear what the spirit says to the churches". In the last 4 the promise is in the body of the letter, preceding the benediction. If the parable is intentionally linked to Philadelphia and Laodicea, why are Thyatira and Sardis not in some way portrayed?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

          Hi Michael
          My thought on this persons opinion may be that while all 7 churches and 7 types of "Christians" are here the entire Church age, we are talking about the majority in the final time... Laodicea does likely encompass all but the very few faithful Philadelphia church members...

          getting a ""unified field theory"" of the Bible is a lot like trying to nail down jello ....... in an overhead application.......

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

            Lewis,

            I came back to this thread because of something I wanted to share with regard to your original post. It's always good, in my opinion, to respect the original thread topic rather than hi-jack a thread into a maze of off topic discussions.
            So, related to your original thread, I was reminded of this while formulating a response on behalf of a friend. A friend of a friend has miscarried for the 3rd time and feels angry toward God. She is especially frustrated with the people who, though well meaning, keep sending her scriptures. I wanted to say to her "You feel like you're drowning and people are throwing you text books on how to swim. The only scripture that will minister to you now will be those scriptures that you stored in your heart before the crisis hit". That idea clicked for me as similar in concept to the 10 virgins. All ten possessed lamps. All ten knew where to find oil. All ten knew the oil was essential. Only five had acted on all these facts, of which they were all aware, and had oil in their lamps. The friend of my friend has been in church for quite a while. She owns the swimming text book and has participated in numerous conversations about its contents. Only now is it becoming apparent that she never really learned how to swim and it only makes her angry when people now try to tell her what the text book says.

            Now for the rabbit trail.
            All 7 letters are addressed to all who have ears, so in that sense all 7 survive in some form to the very end. However, there must be a reason for the change in structure between Pergamos and Thyatira. We both recognize that the churches represent elements of church history moving from the apostolic church of Ephesus all the way to the apostate church of Laodicea. This is one thought that appeals to me personally. In some sense, after Pergamos, the church "turned a corner". We can only read about, not experience, the life of the church as it has changed over the last 2000 years. I would suggest that after Pergamos (the marriage to the world), something was lost that can never be regained. A promiscuous teen may obtain forgiveness but can never regain virginity. I propose that the church lost something, something you and I cannot ever understand because we and our ancestors for many generations grew up in a "post Pergamos" church. In that sense Ephesus Smyrna and Pergamos are only present in common circumstances like first love lost, or persecution. Every church around at the end will be a post-Pergamos church that can never comprehend what it was that the church lost when it married the world.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

              Lets zig the rabbit trail left ...
              Every church around at the end will be a post-Pergamos church that can never comprehend what it was that the church lost when it married the world.
              Thing is, the Baptist church (AnaBaptists) never joined the world... was never a part of the Roman church system...when Constantine formed the universal (Catholic) church, the faithful Church refused to have anything to do with the establishment "church" who married the pagan world, and brought pagan worship into their "church"
              For this reason 50 million faithful Baptists were killed by Rome between the time of Constantine 400AD and the reformation 1400AD.... and millions since...

              find and read the booklet "The trail of blood"


              The Trail of Blood Kindle Edition
              This book covers the history of the Baptists from the time of Christ to the present day. It includes an excellent chart in the back showing not only the origin of the Baptists, but also the rise of the Roman Catholic Church and the origin of Protestantism. This book is also available in paperback for $2.00 on the publisher's website: Book Heaven-Challenge Press (http://www.baptist-books.com/product/CP-211-948.html)

              http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=1&*entries*=0
              Last edited by lewisb; 03-09-2016, 12:28 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

                The first time a church was called "Baptist" (as best I can discover), was in Amsterdam in 1609 .. pastor was John Smyth.

                Of course there is an unbroken line of true Christians since the first century, but they were not a "denomination."

                Acts 9:
                1
                And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
                2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

                Acts 11:
                25
                Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
                26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (bold mine)

                At the first, believers were called those of "the way", most certainly, I believe, after Jesus' words in John 14 ..

                John 14:
                6
                Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (bold mine)

                They were simply born again, followers of Christ, the way. A long, long time ago, there were some that taught that the church went back to "John the Baptist." Most, if not all, have abandoned that given there is no scriptural evidence of that.

                And today ... whoa! The term "Baptist" does NOT narrow down to a common belief about doctrine or theology. Saying one is a "Baptist" means almost nothing anymore due to the huge variation in beliefs.

                But yes .. there has always been at least a remnant upon the earth.

                Issachar
                The church is on Earth to save souls from a lost world, not to save the world from lost souls.

                Man learns about history, not from history. To learn from history requires wisdom. Cut off from God, he has none, so history repeats; no new thing under the sun.

                I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken - dylan

                Psalms 122:8 For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

                  The first time a church was called "Baptist" (as best I can discover), was in Amsterdam in 1609 .. pastor was John Smyth.
                  there many names of different groups down through the centuries that followed the Bible and Biblical baptism... because of the horrendous persecution of the Roman and later the Prodestant churches almost all we know about them is their names... and that they were faithful to the Bible unto death...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

                    Originally posted by lewisb View Post
                    there many names of different groups down through the centuries that followed the Bible and Biblical baptism... because of the horrendous persecution of the Roman and later the Prodestant churches almost all we know about them is their names... and that they were faithful to the Bible unto death...
                    I was raised Baptist, in fact licensed and ordained, so I'm familiar with the claim that the anabaptists rejected most of the worldly practices embraced by the roman church. Nonetheless, we cannot make any claim that our ancestors remained pristine (the pagan practices of Christmas and Easter just to touch the tip of the iceberg). The whole church, every denomination, is tainted by that marriage to the world. I still maintain that no living Christian can even begin to imagine what it was really like in the first century church. We have written descriptions but I contend that there are intangible elements, not captured in writing, that we cannot imagine or re-create. Thus, structurally the letters to Ephesus Smyrna and Pergamos differ from the letters to Thyatira Sardis Philadelphia and Laodicea in that the promise to the overcomer is outside the body of the letter in the first three.
                    I don't mean to sound dogmatic, it's just something I strongly suspect.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New thought on the 10 virgins

                      Originally posted by MichaelJ
                      I still maintain that no living Christian can even begin to imagine what it was really like in the first century church. We have written descriptions but I contend that there are intangible elements, not captured in writing, that we cannot imagine or re-create.
                      I believe this too. But (and you're not saying we can't) we can still live, in Christ, by the leading of the Holy Spirit and be just as godly by obedience to His Word. Alternatively, the first century church, couldn't imagine (for other than the obvious reason) what it would be like to be in this century either.

                      In many ways it is irrelevant .. There are those in Christ, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, born again .. and have been since that started, through today. History/today shows huge deviations from Christianity by many that "claimed/claim"" to be Christian, but the faithful were/are always there/here, regardless what they may call themselves at any given time.

                      Issachar
                      The church is on Earth to save souls from a lost world, not to save the world from lost souls.

                      Man learns about history, not from history. To learn from history requires wisdom. Cut off from God, he has none, so history repeats; no new thing under the sun.

                      I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken - dylan

                      Psalms 122:8 For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.

                      Comment

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