D.L. Moody

[Guest]

I have had some time this evening to read about the great preacher. Now I have read about his death and the wonderful event that it was for him. I started to read more about his background and found that after his conversion he also was baptised in the Holy Spirit and believed them to be two seperate events. I have always believed that when you are converted you receive the Holy Spirit and the only time that I had any experience that it was seperate is when I fell into the name it claim it crowd. The Lord faithfully brought me out of that. Now I know the instant when I realised that I believed. But it was not a seperate event. I am confused but am also fully sure that the Spirit of God lives in me. Now D.L. Moody was a man used mighty of God and so I make no comparisons with him but am I missing something? I have been a believer for 34 years. Seems silly to question it now. And I know there are different opinion on this but just wonder what you guys think. Also I have brought my children up in the admonition of the Lord. Have I mislead them? Oh my, this is what I get for having too much time on my hands.

[Andy]

Re: D.L. Moody

That's a very controversial subject and one on which I stand quite strongly on the side that says it's a one-time thing. We are indwelt by the Spirit at the point of salvation and that's it. Paul says in 1 Cor 12:13 this:
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Then here:
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One baptism, and all are part of that. It's not something voluntary except to accept the gospel - the rest is ALL the Spirit.

This is, however, being "filled with the Spirit" which you have to get into the Greek tense, mood, voice to really understand but it has to do with our daily walk. If I'm not empty of myself then I cannot be filled with the Spirit...it's about control of your life. This is seen here:

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

I can either let something else control my life or I can let the Spirit take control.

Wish I had more time...but I don't, sorry...

(I do hope this thread doesn't get "ugly" as I know this can be a hot topic)

[Guest]

Re: D.L. Moody

Thanks Andy. So if I understand you we get the Spirit at the moment of faith. And then through our lives according to how we walk the Spirit fills us to lead us. I guess then that it is a laying down of ourselves and to allow the Spirit control which is bound to make a difference in our lives. A conscience decision then. A infilling of the Spirit of God. Then maybe it could be said that D.L. Moody was in a near constant state of surrender. And that is one of the signs of maturity.

[Guest]

Re: D.L. Moody

I've always understood the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, to occur at the point of salvation.

[Glorify Him]

Re: D.L. Moody

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs at salvation. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different thing altogether. I see no controversy surrounding it. I am very tired, have the vertigo back, but feel this is important enough to post more about tomorrow. I was saved at 14, I was 34 when I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, which is Biblical, and it totally transformed my life. Be back later with some info to support this.

[Andy]

Re: D.L. Moody

Therein lies the controversy, sister GH. You see it as two separate events I do not.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So if we are all baptized into one body, by the Spirit, and Ephesians tells us there is one baptism (period) then I would submit that the experiential events of Acts where it was a separate event was unique to that time. Note that Ephesians and Corinthians was written to believers long after Acts. In other words, where it comes to this subject I am a secessionist in that I believe this was not something God continued to do - just like no one has to lay hands on, or breathe on, a new convert to receive the Spirit. I think you just agreed that we receive the indwelling of the Spirit at the moment of conversion - yes, we do - now. This was not the case in the early days of the church. Why it was separated is something we can certainly discuss but - by the time Paul wrote his Epistles to the various churches some of these things were no longer happening. The church was established.

Dear Jackie - please understand that this is one of those debates we simply will not solve here on WeDG - just like rapture timing. Theologians have been debating and disagreeing about this for centuries and it won't be solved here. I suggest you read the scriptures that talk about the subject and pray for guidance.

[Glorify Him]

Re: D.L. Moody

Andy, you say "long after Acts" how long do you believe that was? And why?

[Andy]

Re: D.L. Moody

You are correct - to clarify: Long after Acts 1 - 9. Ninth chapter is where Saul is converted.
I will elaborate more tomorrow...it's late.

[Guest]

Re: D.L. Moody

I will take your advice Andy and study in Scripture. I fully trust The Lord will guide and teach me through the Holy Spirit. In fact if you wish to remove thread I understand.

[Issachar]

Re: D.L. Moody

Well, I hope the thread stays .. I'm very interested.

Issachar

[SAT]

Re: D.L. Moody

Jmvho
In a strange way does it matter???? The Father is in Heaven and His Son is by His side. The Holy Spirit is here with us. Like any relationship we can listen, take comfort and council with Him. We can allow Him to teach us, correct us and work through us. We can see the fruit and grow within the relationship. If you have accepted the Lord as your Savior, then the relationship with the Father has been re-established, the Holy Spirit is also there. Just don't ignore Him. He will respond. The first step is acknowledging He is there,(Just as we had to acknowledge what the Lord did for us) so you can have an interactive relationship.

[Issachar]

Re: D.L. Moody

Jmvho
In a strange way does it matter???? The Father is in Heaven and His Son is by His side. The Holy Spirit is here with us. Like any relationship we can listen, take comfort and council with Him. We can allow Him to teach us, correct us and work through us. We can see the fruit and grow within the relationship. If you have accepted the Lord as your Savior, then the relationship with the Father has been re-established, the Holy Spirit is also there. Just don't ignore Him. He will respond. The first step is acknowledging He is there, so you can have an interactive relationship.

Yes. What she said.

If we believe the gospel; place our faith in Christ and we are His, then the Holy Spirit dwells in us. If the Holy Spirit was not indwelling, we wouldn't be Christians.

Romans 8:
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


Also, some great scriptures concerning the Holy Spirit.

Issachar

[SAT]

Re: D.L. Moody

PS

I suspect the key to those verses could be the fact many didn't realize the Holy Spirit had been sent to pour out on everyone who accepts.

[Guest]

Re: D.L. Moody

Yes, what SAT and Issachar said.

wlnf

[Guest]

Re: D.L. Moody

I still would like to hear Glorify Him's experience, if you are willing to share that with us.