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  • SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

    SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL



    In a sermon by William Elbert Munsey, a preacher of the 1800's, he brings up this supposition. He has already preached three sermons on the existence of hell. He has a very picturesque description:



    "Now suppose there is no Hell. Suppose the soul in no special or particular place of misery, but simply lost—flung by the power of God beyond creation's boundaries into immeasurable wastes of night, where no world ever rolled in sight, no ray of light ever penciled an image, no word or sound ever wandered, and over whose expanse no angel ever flew.

    See it traversing the darkness, and threading the inky abysms in search of worlds, in search of heaven, in search of something where there is nothing visible, tangible, or ponderable—in search of something beside itself.

    Saints commune with saints, angels with angels, and they all commune with God: but this soul, sympathetic and social in the very construction of its being, its state changed and not its constitutional nature, is eternally isolated from everything like itself, and plunged into an ocean of darkness interminable to its flagging wing, where no sight or sound will ever greet its aching sense, and doomed to wander in the pathless void while cycles roll and ages go grinding on.

    See it careering in its bewildered flight. It has crossed its track a thousand times, and recrossed it. It is lost! lost! beyond the power of finding. It knows it. It feels it, but still it flies, now advancing, now regressing. It turns, and turns again, and lo! a blush of dusky light—a stupendous arch of massive bend, and a temple grand in its darkness, with dusky gates and dingy towers, greets its vision. It fain would scale the loftiest turret—it soars, it hovers, but oh, horror of horrors! temple, gates, and towers melt away into darker gloom, and it is left in awful loneliness hanging in agony, but a speck of quivering terror in untenanted and unilluminated space. Shall it ascend, descend, or move off on a level?

    There are no ups or downs, or recumbent planes where there is nothing. If ups, and downs, and planes there are, it may soar up, up, up, forever, or dip down, down, down, forever, or rush on, on, on, forever it is still, and through all eternity a lost soul.

    See it yonder, yonder, yonder. It goes that way: LOST! lost! Lost! It comes this way, shrieking lost! lost! lost! till our hearts stand still with horror.

    Scream on, and fly on, cursed and ruined spirit : no battlemented walls of towering jasper will ever meet thy gaze, or furnish a resting-place for thy weary pinion. Fly on, lost soul, forever, no angel of mercy will ever cross thy solitary way, or overtake thee in thy wanderings. Lost spirits! blackened with the curse of thy God, fly on, and repeat in despairing cry the chorus of thine own horrible death-march, lost, lost, where no echoes will ever mock thy misery.

    Immortal soul! lost in boundless, bottomless, infinite darkness, fly on, thou shalt never find company till the ghost of eternity will greet you over the grave of God, and thou shalt never find rest till thou art able to fold thy wings on the gravestone of thy Maker."

  • #2
    Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

    Having "supposed" such (at one time in my life) ; have pondered, wondered and been reaffirmed by many ,there is no 'remaining' Hell-as-such.

    -------------

    Some friends believe ; that in the Ultimate end,
    God will wash ALL' in the blood of Christ.

    --------------



    However , i dismiss all , to conclude there is , indeed a hell.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

      In one aspect, Hell IS separation from God, so in this regard, it would be Hell.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

        Interesting this shows up on WeDG tonight. My coworker and I just had a lengthy conversation about the subject of hell and if it's really "eternal". The JW's teach an "annihilation" doctrine where people that are damned suffer punishment for a time then just cease to exist. How much time/punishment they endure is related to just how bad or "good" they were during their lifetime.

        Problem is scripture sure doesn't seem to support that theory. This one verse alone makes it real hard to see things any differently than what Jesus says here:

        Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

        The Greek for 'everlasting' and for 'eternal' are identical words. The Greek for "punishment" clearly does not have a cessation application to it when put together with "eternal" (or everlasting).

        If that theory was true then we would have to also say that those of us that go to heaven would enjoy the riches of glory for a time then...cease to exist. How long we would live in this blissful state would be determined solely by how much we did for the glory of God. The Apostle Paul would enjoy more years than, say, a child that was a believer and lost his/her life while young. Our first inclination to such a theory is, "NO way! God will have us with Him in glory forever! That's "eternal life" after all!"

        Indeed it is...and, sadly, "eternal punishment" is just as real. This should make us want to reach out to the lost all around us when we really contemplate what they have ahead of them. It should make us weep and want to share Jesus.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

          Did just a little Research;



          Worm dieth not...the Fire is not Quenched.

          Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

          Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me:
          for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

          Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
          Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
          Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


          of FIRE

          Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

          Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
          Jam 3:6 And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
          Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


          HELL

          2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
          Job 11:8 [It is] as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
          Job 26:6 Hell [is] naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
          Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
          Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
          Psa 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
          Psa 55:15 Let death seize upon them, [and] let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness [is] in their dwellings, [and] among them.
          Psa 86:13 For great [is] thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
          Psa 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
          Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
          Pro 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
          Pro 7:27 Her house [is] the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
          Pro 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead [are] there; [and that] her guests [are] in the depths of hell.
          Pro 15:11 Hell and destruction [are] before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
          Pro 15:24 The way of life [is] above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
          Pro 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.
          Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
          Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
          Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
          Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
          Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
          Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase [thyself even] unto hell.
          Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
          Eze 31:17 They also went down into hell with him unto [them that be] slain with the sword; and [they that were] his arm, [that] dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
          Eze 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
          Eze 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty [that are] fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though [they were] the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
          Amo 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
          Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.
          Hab 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
          Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
          Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
          Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
          Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
          Luk 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
          Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
          Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
          Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
          Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
          Jam 3:6 And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
          2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
          Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
          Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
          Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

          Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

            Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
            Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
            Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

            Pastor Jack Hyles, (Hyles Anderson college), preached at our church that their worm, In His Own Opinion , is the worm of their conscience tormenting them forever.......

            of their choices, pride, that led them into hell ......

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

              It might be of interest by some here of David Reagan's position. He considers himself a "conditionalist" and if you read this article of his, note what he says in "A Summary" towards the end.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

                8) What do you consider to be the single most powerful argument against the traditional concept of eternal torment in Hell?

                The fact that we are told that Jesus paid the price for our sins. What was that price? It was suffering and death, not eternal torment. Unrepentant sinners will therefore experience what Jesus experienced: suffering and death (the "Second Death").
                I love Dr. Reagan but he missed this verse:

                Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

                And he also misses the extremely key verse that I presented...eternal life, eternal punishment.

                Sorry, I reject this theory. If Jesus paid the sins of all man and that's why we're going to heaven then this means the unsaved will also go to heaven and there is no repercussions for rejecting Christ? Or if we say they will suffer torment for a time then cease to exist does this mean they eventually paid for their own sins then somewhere in there Christ's blood releases them?

                Wow...either His blood is enough for ALL or it's enough for none. Those that reject Him are without hope...forever.

                I actually remember hearing him teach this and wanted to shout out, "What about the Matthew passage??"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

                  Originally posted by Andy View Post
                  I love Dr. Reagan but he missed this verse:

                  Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

                  And he also misses the extremely key verse that I presented...eternal life, eternal punishment.

                  Sorry, I reject this theory. If Jesus paid the sins of all man and that's why we're going to heaven then this means the unsaved will also go to heaven and there is no repercussions for rejecting Christ? Or if we say they will suffer torment for a time then cease to exist does this mean they eventually paid for their own sins then somewhere in there Christ's blood releases them?

                  Wow...either His blood is enough for ALL or it's enough for none. Those that reject Him are without hope...forever.

                  I actually remember hearing him teach this and wanted to shout out, "What about the Matthew passage??"
                  Believe me, I wasn't posting an argument against anything here, nor do I subscribe to his theory either, only that there are "mainstream" believers who also believe along those lines.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

                    Side-note: I believe that Hebrews verse is what makes a 5-point Calvinist a 5-pointer. Isn't one of the 5 points, "Christ did not pay for the sins of those that He knew, in His sovereignty, would reject Him. He only paid the sins for those that God knew would accept Him"?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

                      Originally posted by JohnR View Post
                      Believe me, I wasn't posting an argument against anything here, nor do I subscribe to his theory either, only that there are "mainstream" believers who also believe along those lines.
                      Right...I agree that anyone that may be very well versed in Biblical theology will still miss the mark here and there.

                      My concern with this one is that it inserts human emotion/reasoning into the equation. "How can God do such a thing" is our puny-minded thinking. I don't know all I know is God knows what He's doing and it's 1. 100% just and 2. 100% within His right to do whatever it is He wants to do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

                        Ooops ,forgot to post souce of verses of prior post.

                        i use this link most.

                        http://www.blueletterbible.org/


                        Psa 22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.


                        ==============================










                        btw ; 'm becoming a person of (PredestinationIST/ISM')) things being Predetermined and we just
                        are actor's out of our particular part
                        ) . Recently , family members have
                        informed me of events, i did not know.


                        Here is MY-Point ( and many will not understand, only a couple of folks
                        get it.) MY-prayers for Decades were ignored by G-d.
                        See most recent "Prayernet" post. Innocence . . .
                        ANSWER by G-D : No

                        Maybe Calvin is correct in some ways.
                        A Dear friend , tells me they believe G-D did
                        Create this planet, but took-of and never turned back.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: SUPPOSE THERE IS NO HELL

                          You're prayers were not ignored, M....I can assure you of that. Just because God doesn't answer them the way we want doesn't mean it's ignored. Always remember all we see is what's in front of our faces. What He sees is a picture that He's painted that spans from the time Adam took his first breath and ends when He puts an end to all things and all things are in place...according to HIS divine plan.

                          Here's a little vulnerability: I had some horrible things happen to me as a young boy (I choose not to give details but it won't take much imagination to fill in the blanks). Was that horrible? Yep. Was it against what God wanted for me? That's where it gets a little tricky. His DIVINE will was to not have that happen. His PERMISSIVE will was to allow it...and to turn even THAT into something good. I can tell you one thing: God used that in ways now that I'm an adult that He wouldn't have been able to do if it hadn't happened. And some of you know other really bad things from my past...things I did. Had God lost control? Was He refusing to answer the prayers of my FAITHFUL parents as they wept on their knees over their boy that was ignoring the Father's call? No, no, no and NO. But..now He uses that, too, for His glory.

                          Discouragement is a part of life. Living discouraged is a choice we make. When we lose sight of the awesome power and infinite LOVE of the Father then we're letting Satan rob us of our joy...we start doubting God and that's EXACTLY what he wants. It's the first trick he pulled on Eve..and it worked. "Hath God really said you would die??"

                          Didn't mean to derail the thread yet I felt like I needed to say those things for the benefit of the many readers that are living in such challenging times. God has NOT failed us. We just can't see HIS plan..and I can assure all of us (myself included) the picture, as He sees it, is a beautiful picture that reflects the face of His Son...and every single event will someday bring Him glory. How?? I have no clue...all I know is it's true.

                          Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

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