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**MoreThanConquerors** · 09-02-2010, 02:36 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

Peter said it started in the book of Acts.

**Guest** · 09-02-2010, 03:27 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

lewisb, People "are" dreaming and having visions but IMHO because the ministry of dreams and visions is not accepted in many churches today the church does not know what the dreams and visions mean.

Job 33:15-16
“In a dream, a vision of the night, When sound sleep falls on men, While they slumber in their beds, Then He opens the ears of men, And seals their instruction,

**Guest** · 09-02-2010, 03:29 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

started in the 1st century?????

OK, if so, then how come there are so many dreams visions nowadays that dont come true?

I also point out that Joel seems to be talking about the end of days, the final era of history ; Jesus second coming.......

**Andy** · 09-02-2010, 03:33 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

Since I hold to a pre-70th week rapture of the church I'll add my two cents...I believe that Jesus' Second COMING (to the earth) may well be preceded by some the faithful remnant having dreams and visions that will help guide them through that horrible time. But I don't hold to that being true for the rapture...just my HO, of course, but there ya have it.

**M from M** · 09-02-2010, 03:34 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

It ain't" Happening' without a few Basic verses happening first.

btw , my whole browser went down , when i tried to post more.

Maybe I can post links next time.

**Andy** · 09-02-2010, 03:37 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

That happens, M - recommend you reboot your computer and come back on.

**MoreThanConquerors** · 09-02-2010, 04:05 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

OK, if so, then how come there are so many dreams visions nowadays that dont come true?

Then I would say those are just dreams, things rising out of people's flesh and subconscious.

Act 2:12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"
Act 2:13 But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
Act 2:15 For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

Simply the answer is here. The fulfillment of Joel's prophecy began in the time of the Acts. Doesn't mean it ended there. We have been in the Last Days for two thousand years.

**Guest** · 09-02-2010, 04:44 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

Originally posted by MoreThanConquerors View Post

Then I would say those are just dreams, things rising out of people's flesh and subconscious.

Egg'zactly...
The early chapters of the book of Ezekiel are full of folks getting zapped (by God) for . . . prophesying that God had told them thus-and-so, when He hadn't. He doesn't seem to 1) be amused by that or 2) be bound by that (Duhhh)

**Boston** · 09-02-2010, 05:54 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

The way I understand it no dreams or visions would = no scriptures, particularly that last book. I don’t see any way to have one without the other.

Not to mention some folks in Macedonia being disappointed (acts 16:9)

Bulinger has that the phrase “this is that” in acts 2:16 was a particular one that had the force of “just like” rather than a direct fulfillment. I personally like his description of the phrase. As I agree with Lewis that it reads like an endtime verse (in Joel) for after the departure of the church and for Israel. Yet I still have a strong leaning of one of them “delightful Pentecostal brethren,” so bulingers take as “it’s just like” fits well for me.

"He does not say "then was fulfilled", nor "as it is written", but merely calls attention to what the prophet said of similar scenes yet future." -E. W. Bullinger

**M from M** · 09-02-2010, 08:57 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

i am posting this LINK here.

maybe others can more easily post it
in other related threads.

Look at the "Vision" , the actors/players, the exacting terms, and the
timing factor.

Also notice the 2 in the upper left small Pic insert.
Have also noted the number of "COMMENTS" (143 at moment)
and believe they are
VERy telling as well.

Wish I could post the whole article.

What think ye?

Here: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139441

Published: 09/01/10, 2:51 PM / Last Update: 09/01/10, 3:19 PM
Barak: Israel May Divide Jerusalem, Internationalize Holy Basin

by Chana Ya'ar

**Issachar** · 09-02-2010, 11:15 PM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

Originally posted by Boston

Bulinger has that the phrase “this is that” in acts 2:16 was a particular one that had the force of “just like” rather than a direct fulfillment. I personally like his description of the phrase. As I agree with Lewis that it reads like an endtime verse (in Joel) for after the departure of the church and for Israel. Yet I still have a strong leaning of one of them “delightful Pentecostal brethren,” so bulingers take as “it’s just like” fits well for me.

"He does not say "then was fulfilled", nor "as it is written", but merely calls attention to what the prophet said of similar scenes yet future." -E. W. Bullinger

I agree with MTC and abidinglove. The verse in Acts .. v.16 plainly says, "this is that which was spoken .." Acts is saying this IS. I don't know a way it could be worded to make it more plain. jmho. I have no problem with someone using different words to make the same point more clear or understandable, but what Bullinger is saying actually changes what is being said. I personally would not want to be doing that with God's Word. It would scare me.

I think that we are in the last days, as stated in v.17, but in conversation, I don't mind referring to these days we're in as "the end of the last days" or something similar. But v.17 just says "the last days."

I think that often folks are leary of things like dreams and visions and so they make changes to the wording of scripture in order to be able to say, "See, that's not for now" (our lifetimes) because they don't want someone to be "adding to or subtracting from, the Word of God." Good reason I suppose, but they may be doing what they are concerned about in order to "prevent" that which they are concerned about. Just because their are some SERIOUS abusers of these things in our day, is no reason to reject these things. There have been abusers of the prophetic and visions, etc. since near the beginning. That is why our Lord saw it necessary to also give us the gift of wisdom, the gift of knowlege and the gift of discernment. (1 Corinthians 12:10)

Originally posted by Boston

Not to mention some folks in Macedonia being disappointed (acts 16:9)

Acts 16:
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

There you go ... one of many NT examples of someone having a vision ... "back then."

Issachar .. just tryin' to figure out stuff with the rest of ya ..

**Boston** · 09-03-2010, 04:14 AM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

Originally posted by Issachar View Post

IActs is saying this IS. I don't know a way it could be worded to make it more plain. jmho. I have no problem with someone using different words to make the same point more clear or understandable, but what Bullinger is saying actually changes what is being said. I personally would not want to be doing that with God's Word. It would scare me.

..

Well, that’s a big charge to lay on “Mr. exact what’s written”

he is noting remote context not just the immediate

Acts 2:16-21is an illustration which affects the remoter Context as well as the nearer, because it is a quotation from Joel 2:28-32 - bullinger

He’s actually noticing that peters wording is different than the phrases “as it was written” or “has been fulfilled” that is used in other places in scripture, that it stands out in comparison to other scriptures regarding fulfilled prophecy.

Since peter was prophesying to the crowd, and quotes all the way to the signs in the moon and sun, which has not been fulfilled yet, then to say Joel is fulfilled is an apparent inaccuracy. He also notes that there is no tongues in Joel, yet this is specifically what peters prophecy is declaring to be of the Spirit.

The use of “this is that” (“this is spoken” in gr.) as a nuance to me is an exact reading.

Then again, it reminds me of how John the Baptist was Elisha (sp?).

fun stuff, making me late for work

**Issachar** · 09-03-2010, 08:38 AM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

Ok "Mr. late for work" (since it's for WeDG, you boss should understand)

I just read Joel 2. "The last days" started back there with Christ's resurrection or ascension to the right hand of the Father or Pentecost ... somewhere in there ... and what Joel is talking about, I think, is stuff that will happen from that time to the end of these last days. Some is already fulfilled/being fulfilled and some is yet to be.

Otherwise, how could we explain the dreams and visions that occurred several times in the NT scriptures (still waiting for GSheff's reply to posts #21 & 23 here.

Good morning Glenn in Virginia. You're another of the many WeDG folk I would love to sit and chat with.

)?

Issachar, off to Cleveland later today to see my oldest daughter and her family and photograph a wedding over there tomorrow ...

**Guest** · 09-03-2010, 09:47 AM

Re: He's coming this week this month next month next year

It is a very frightening thing to have a vision!...in fact terrifying!

If it is of God and you don't do as you are told you are in trouble with God and if it isn't of God and you say it is you are in trouble with God. And.......if you don't have the discernment to be able to tell which is or isn't of God........you are really in trouble!

This is a very serious area of discussion!

A vision of God will come true if it is a vision of God.......it will line up with Scripture, not contradict the WORD and will be for a purpose.

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